Technical Fiat Panda 1988 4x4 I.E suddenly stopped

[Holm]

Hello
I recently acquired my first Panda, a 1988 4x4 I.E model with the FIRE 999cc engine. The car was advertised with a broken alternator tension bolt and i fixed that last weekend.
Yesterday when i was out crusing in the car the engine suddenly cut out. I put the car in neutral and rolled to a stop on the side of the road. I tryed to start the car up, and i could hear the engine turning over just fine, but it would not start.
Today i towed the car home and replaced the battery (the old one was dead from running the starter) and the car started right away.
Is there any common problems which could cause this behavior?

 

[kolza]

Sounds like ignition issue.

Might be faulty ignition module located on the distributor, or cables from the pick-up sensor inside distributor. I've gone through that problem recently.

Start the ingine and leave it to run, if it will stall check if there is spark streight after. if no spark - remove dizzy and inspect sensor cables, if ok and pick-up sensor works fine ( resitance measured between both cables) it will be the ignition module - they have gone down in price recently. It is known sympthon that it stops to operate when hot, starts back on when cold.

 

[kolza]

Sorry, i've just notice the I.E. marking is it injected?

Some special Scandinavian edition due to emmision law or something.

 

[Holm]

I think the car is injected. This model was the only one avaliable for sale in Sweden.
Snapped a pic of the engine:

 

[kolza]

Here is the thread I was refering to. Not exactly same problem but have a read just to familirise yourself with that engine version. Albert might be local to you.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/426403-idling-problem.html

 

[Holm]

I checked the vacuum advance unit today and it leaked pretty bad. So i ordered a new one. Hopefully this will fix my problem

 

[Dragon Man]

uses the same engine management system as the Uno FIRE ie here in the uk.

when you were turning it over, trying to start it. did you notice any petrol smells like it was flooded?

you wont find a crank position sensor (CPS) on this engine as it gets all of its fuel injection timing from the ignition system. if any of the ignition system fails and you get no spark, you will have it where it wont inject fuel into the engine too.

as said i would replace the ignition module as they can get intermittent issues when they get hot. then when they have cooled down they will work fine again. (its always good to have a spare anyway!)

a mod i have seen on the Italian facebook group is that they completely remove it from the distributor and put it somewhere where it can not be warmed up by the engine.

other thing to look at is the cables going to the ECU. theres 2 power cables, one red cable comes from the battery and another orange cable comes from the ignition coil. just make sure those connectors are corrosion free

 

[Holm]

Hello and thanks for the reply☺
I ordered a ignition module today so hopefully i will have it by monday.
I also checked the cables to the ECU and they where fine.

 

[kolza]

While there, have a look on cables going to pick-up sensor. As you can see on attached photos they do lile to loose the insulation with age.

photo thanks to MEP

 

[Dragon Man]

damn.. yeah thats defiantly not helping!

 

[Holm]

Hello.
Got my ignition unit early☺
Planning to install it later today. I have not recived my vacuum advance unit yet however.
Should i plug the hose from the vacuum advance unit when i test drive the car?

 

[Dragon Man]

yeah, any vacuum leaks, just plug them up.

those little vacuum servos always fail.. if ever you get to the point where you cant find them for the FIRE engine, one from off an old small petrol Citroen engine will fit (like from the AX). all you need to do is just file a hole out a little more on the mounting bracket.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Vauxhall OHC engine vacuum advances fit as well, off the Delco distributor.

 

[Holm]

Thanks for all your help regarding this problem!
I finally got all the parts last week so i figured i would update you guys.
I replaced the Vacuum advance unit, ignition unit and the pick-up sensor. The car was running great and even passed its first MOT in 4 years

This week the car has developed a new problem.
It now takes a few(sometimes 5-6) tries and some throttle to get the car running, when the car is cold it also dies on idle. Any ideas?

 

[andyholli]

My guess is - Choke not getting the mixture rich enough. - I'd check cable is fully closing the flap (air filter off to check the action) or a blocked idle jet, or an air leak but that's less likely.

Good luck. Keep us informed.

 

[firstcar-Y10]

My guess is - Choke not getting the mixture rich enough. - I'd check cable is fully closing the flap (air filter off to check the action) or a blocked idle jet, or an air leak but that's less likely.

Good luck. Keep us informed.

....injection
Sounds like a temp sensor, so the ECU is not adjusting the mix when cold, again, not sure where that is on this setup though. Throttle body or inlet manifold somewhere.

 

[andyholli]

What he said. - I failed to read from the top and assumed we were carb not injection.

Sorry.