I have a modified 2zz-ge cylinder head sitting in my garage. Yep, the same engine that's in the Lotus Elise. The engine itself is very light, has about 165hp(180hp crank) to the wheels and a lot of aftermarket. My question is...has anybody ever considered putting other non-fiat 4 cylinders into our X's? And will it usually work?
Technical Engine ideas
- Thread starter fastrendy
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Engine ideas
jimbro1000
Established member
From a purely hypothetical point of view almost any inline-4 cylinder engine would work. The labour involved in some of them could prove rather extensive and there is little point in putting a heavy and/or low-power engine in.
Favourite choice has long been the Uno Turbo/Punto GT engine as it is the same block so the work is minimised - very, very good results too!
If I had to pick a more recent engine I would likely opt for one of the Honda inspired designs (the i-vtec honda, k-series rover or the toyota powerplant you mentioned). These engines are all lightweight and surprisingly powerful while also proving very reliable (once you sort out the niggles like the plastic dowel and coolant bypass valve in the rover engine).
The Fiat/Lancia twin-cams have long been popular but I still feel that they upset the balance of the car and require a disproportionate amount of work to fit. The later Alfa twin-spark engines are based on the Fiat/Lancia block and include a better optimised head for that little extra sparkle in the performance.
The new Fiat FIRE engines are superb pieces of work but relatively costly to tune. The 1.4 16v engine gives a healthy 95bhp while also being one of the cleanest petrol engines you can buy. It benefits from very low weight when compared to the old 1.3 and 1.5 8v that the X1/9 started out with. From personal experience the best tuning option is the 8v though and the block is good for about 190bhp - enough to scare anyone.
If it is just raw grunt you want then there is always the mitsubishi 2.0 turbo - we've seen stock cars with 450bhp direct from the dealer but you would have the problem of finding a drivetrain that will work in this configuration. In a slightly lightened X1/9 (even with reinforcements to the chassis) you could easily get to an awe-inspiring 600bhp/tonne but would you be driving an X1/9 anymore? I don't think it really counts as such given the amount of extra engineering required to get there. An X1/9 silhouette would be the best description.
Favourite choice has long been the Uno Turbo/Punto GT engine as it is the same block so the work is minimised - very, very good results too!
If I had to pick a more recent engine I would likely opt for one of the Honda inspired designs (the i-vtec honda, k-series rover or the toyota powerplant you mentioned). These engines are all lightweight and surprisingly powerful while also proving very reliable (once you sort out the niggles like the plastic dowel and coolant bypass valve in the rover engine).
The Fiat/Lancia twin-cams have long been popular but I still feel that they upset the balance of the car and require a disproportionate amount of work to fit. The later Alfa twin-spark engines are based on the Fiat/Lancia block and include a better optimised head for that little extra sparkle in the performance.
The new Fiat FIRE engines are superb pieces of work but relatively costly to tune. The 1.4 16v engine gives a healthy 95bhp while also being one of the cleanest petrol engines you can buy. It benefits from very low weight when compared to the old 1.3 and 1.5 8v that the X1/9 started out with. From personal experience the best tuning option is the 8v though and the block is good for about 190bhp - enough to scare anyone.
If it is just raw grunt you want then there is always the mitsubishi 2.0 turbo - we've seen stock cars with 450bhp direct from the dealer but you would have the problem of finding a drivetrain that will work in this configuration. In a slightly lightened X1/9 (even with reinforcements to the chassis) you could easily get to an awe-inspiring 600bhp/tonne but would you be driving an X1/9 anymore? I don't think it really counts as such given the amount of extra engineering required to get there. An X1/9 silhouette would be the best description.
Hi Jimbro,
The reason why I picked the celica/lotus engine is because I know a little bit more about them than say the K20, having once owned a Celica myself. Also, I know that the transmission is also mounted on the left side of the engine - same as the X. It'd be a matter of just bringing it back to the rear.
I also think the mitsu engine would be great for this but you would forget that the engines also came with FWD. Having said that I think it might be possible.
All in all, I would rather have the ferrari dino engine in it. Where could I find those?
I hear a lot about the Uno engine swap. But where can I find more info on them and how do I find one?
The reason why I picked the celica/lotus engine is because I know a little bit more about them than say the K20, having once owned a Celica myself. Also, I know that the transmission is also mounted on the left side of the engine - same as the X. It'd be a matter of just bringing it back to the rear.
I also think the mitsu engine would be great for this but you would forget that the engines also came with FWD. Having said that I think it might be possible.
All in all, I would rather have the ferrari dino engine in it. Where could I find those?
I hear a lot about the Uno engine swap. But where can I find more info on them and how do I find one?
jimbro1000
Established member
A dino engine would be a tall order, even in non-working order they fetch a good premium - not to say it can't be done but you'd find it pricey to say the least. There is then the issue that the block is quite a bit wider than the Fiat 4 cylinder unit which likely means having to move the suspension mounting points in order to get it all to fit.
Uno Turbo engines are starting to be a bit rare too - the numbers are dwindling fast due to the small production numbers and the abuse they receive. The later Punto GT engine is the same basic block and offers a number of benefits but it isn't such an easy fit unfortunately. Finding one is generally a matter of hunting through breakers yards - I used a locator service and had an engine delivered to me within a week (actually I got the complete front end of the car on a pallet).
The biggest hurdle in all of these discussions is the transmission - not only do you have to make it fit but the gear linkage is always inevitably on the wrong side - the Toyota engine has the benefit of having been fitted to the MkIII MR2 which means there is a gearbox with the linkage on the right side that will bolt to the engine without too much drama.
Uno Turbo engines are starting to be a bit rare too - the numbers are dwindling fast due to the small production numbers and the abuse they receive. The later Punto GT engine is the same basic block and offers a number of benefits but it isn't such an easy fit unfortunately. Finding one is generally a matter of hunting through breakers yards - I used a locator service and had an engine delivered to me within a week (actually I got the complete front end of the car on a pallet).
The biggest hurdle in all of these discussions is the transmission - not only do you have to make it fit but the gear linkage is always inevitably on the wrong side - the Toyota engine has the benefit of having been fitted to the MkIII MR2 which means there is a gearbox with the linkage on the right side that will bolt to the engine without too much drama.
All this talk about engine swaps but no one has yet mentioned (to my knowledge) the late Fiat coupe turbo engine. With 220hp on hand, I think that's enough for the x1/9 to be fast. And it will still remain a Fiat 
. All this is just a pipe dream for me though. But it doesn't hurt to talk about it . What's your opinion on it, Jimbro? Do you think the transmission will again be the main factor?
Fast Rendy
. All this is just a pipe dream for me though. But it doesn't hurt to talk about it . What's your opinion on it, Jimbro? Do you think the transmission will again be the main factor?Fast Rendy
jimbro1000
Established member
The reason no-one mentions it is the sheer size of the engine, it barely fits into the engine bay of the coupe so you can imagine what it would be like to try and fit it into an X1/9. Then there is the transmission - another rather large piece of hardware and it all takes up valuable space. The end result is that you have to do a lot of surgery...
As for power from a 5-pot turbo - well a good friend of mine has just fitted a newly built example to his race car and seen just short of 500bhp at 7900 rpm - the problem being is that is where they stopped mapping - the torque was still rising! Admittedly this is a rather special 5-pot turbo but he has been able to extract a healty 350bhp from otherwise stock engines as emergency replacements when the purpose built engines have failed (he hasn't had much luck in that respect).
Yes a very nice power plant but sadly not much good for an X1/9 I feel (doesn't mean you shouldn't do it of course).
The old 4-pot version is still just as good. There are guys out in Greece extracting just short of 900bhp from that engine - the real question is how far do you want to go? I'm getting nearly 300bhp from the old 1.4 engine without putting it through any real stress.
There are plenty of other engines inbetween and no-one says you have to stick with a Fiat/Lancia engine. I reckon you could squeeze a flat 4 in the back nicely so why not use an imprezza engine and transmission with the diff transfer to the rear (on the donor) locked off? You could probably get a flat 6 in the back so why not use a 911 turbo engine while you're at it?
As for power from a 5-pot turbo - well a good friend of mine has just fitted a newly built example to his race car and seen just short of 500bhp at 7900 rpm - the problem being is that is where they stopped mapping - the torque was still rising! Admittedly this is a rather special 5-pot turbo but he has been able to extract a healty 350bhp from otherwise stock engines as emergency replacements when the purpose built engines have failed (he hasn't had much luck in that respect).
Yes a very nice power plant but sadly not much good for an X1/9 I feel (doesn't mean you shouldn't do it of course).
The old 4-pot version is still just as good. There are guys out in Greece extracting just short of 900bhp from that engine - the real question is how far do you want to go? I'm getting nearly 300bhp from the old 1.4 engine without putting it through any real stress.
There are plenty of other engines inbetween and no-one says you have to stick with a Fiat/Lancia engine. I reckon you could squeeze a flat 4 in the back nicely so why not use an imprezza engine and transmission with the diff transfer to the rear (on the donor) locked off? You could probably get a flat 6 in the back so why not use a 911 turbo engine while you're at it?
How hard would it be to fit a Porsche 901 transmission (out of a 914) attached to a 13B Turbo (Possibly Twin-Turbo??) into an X1/9?
Kennedy Engineering makes the adapter to mount the two together, but I don't know if they'll fit in an X1/9 without mounting the engine behind the axle. The 901 transmission is not a transaxle, it sits longitudinally, but porsche has no problem fitting it in the mid engine 914.
What do you guys think of mounting a rotary in the X1/9?
Lots of potential power, but they weigh around 400lbs with the turbo and intercooler (and ECU I think).
How much do those other engines weigh?
Kennedy Engineering makes the adapter to mount the two together, but I don't know if they'll fit in an X1/9 without mounting the engine behind the axle. The 901 transmission is not a transaxle, it sits longitudinally, but porsche has no problem fitting it in the mid engine 914.
What do you guys think of mounting a rotary in the X1/9?
Lots of potential power, but they weigh around 400lbs with the turbo and intercooler (and ECU I think).
How much do those other engines weigh?
jimbro1000
Established member
Mazda rotary has been done before, not sure of the results but definitely seen the conversation!
