Technical Driveshafts for Punto box in Uno

[fostertom]

Thinking of fitting a Punto 6sp box into my 89 70SX Uno. Might as well buy new driveshafts while at it - like
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRIVESHAFT-LH-LEFT-N-S-FIAT-UNO-45-0-9-55-1-1-70-1-3-83-95-DS6766-/200776016109?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ebf2ee0ed
Would this provide all I'd need to couple 6sp Punto box to Uno hubs? Should do, as it's for a Punto-type box as originally fitted in late Unos.

 

[lewey]

Presume you have gearbox mounts and gear change sorted.

The shafts in the link appear to be the earlier type shaft (listing actually says 1984-5), so won't do.

If you like to drive outside of town, bare in mind the 6th gear will be a reasonable amount lower than the 5th in the current box. The early 6 speed has lower ratios than the late (current) ones, but both are a bit annoying for cars without much larger wheels.

 

[fostertom]

Thanks Lewey

I meant I would pick the correct one - for late Fire engined Uno with Punto-type box. my question was, I guess
a) would a Punto 6sp box be same, as far as driveshafts, as a Punto-type box as fitted to late-Unos? So would late-Uno driveshafts fit the Punto 6sp box without prob?
b) would such a driveshaft assembly include everything needed to connect 6sp box to late-Uno hubs (because I'd have bought a gearbox prob with driveshafts just pulled out of it).

Yeah, about gearing - I wouldn't mind the Uno's ridiculously high top gear being lower - like on my Punto Cabrio. but then we're making it even lower because of 13" wheels. That I know wd be the effect of the 6sp Punto box - fractionally even lower in 6th than the normal Punto 5th as in my Cabrio. That's what you mean by 'the early 6sp'? So what do you mean by 'the late (current0 one' - is that in late Grande Puntos? I did hear that some Stilos have a higher 6sp box - but are those Punto-type, drop-in to a Uno like a gen Punto one?

Thanks for all the info and wisdom!

 

[lewey]

Yes, just use late Uno driveshafts. There are two sizes of "cups" that go into the box which the Uno spider bearings slide into. Late boxes have larger ones so won't work with Uno shafts. You can easily take the cups from an Uno box that you might buy and bang them into any C514 box though.

There are no mounting considerations for a 6 speed over a 5 speed C514 box in an Uno or larger car. It is a little tight in a Panda and annoying in a Cento. This is simply the longer casework housing the 6th gear pair. All the bits you can bolt to a 5 speed can be bolted to a 6 speed and all the internals are interchangeable apart from the obviously 6 speed bits! The main and bellhousing casework are the same too. This does not take into account the very small variations that are found through the years, but won't stop you chopping and changing.

Early 6 speeds are Punto Mk1 era and have a particularly low final drive. After that (1999), FIAT (FPT) simply made one 6 speed C514 box with EXACTLY THE SAME ratios, including final drives, for every model car that it is fitted to (1.2 and 1.4 16v engines). So we are talking Stilo 1.2 and 1.4, Punto mk2 1.2, Punto mk2b 1.4, GPs, 500 1.4, Mito 1.4, Bravo 1.4, Panda 100HP, etc, etc. I stopped researching the subject about 18 months ago, but up until 2011 and very likely present day, they are literally all the same with different bits and bobs bolted on for changing gears, etc.

I've heard the Stilo comment before, but it is not true for the C514 box you are interested in.

 

[fostertom]

Fantastic Lewey, you are a clear spring of wisdom.

 

[rawill]

A bit off topic, but will an early Uno 5 speed gearbox mount up to a mid 90's Punto.

There is a Punto here with a good motor but a ruined manual transmission.

 

[lewey]

A bit off topic, but will an early Uno 5 speed gearbox mount up to a mid 90's Punto.

There is a Punto here with a good motor but a ruined manual transmission.

If the Uno and Punto engines are FIRE types, then yes it will fit the punto engine, but there are no off the shelf parts to help with driveshafts, changing gears, clutch disengagement, etc. in the Punto. You would need to be very desperate to attempt this swap in my opinion.

 

[rawill]

If the Uno and Punto engines are FIRE types, then yes it will fit the punto engine, but there are no off the shelf parts to help with driveshafts, changing gears, clutch disengagement, etc. in the Punto. You would need to be very desperate to attempt this swap in my opinion.

Thank you for that, I should have thought before I posted.
My spare gearbox is from a Lampredi engine! :bang:

 

[fostertom]

about gearing - I wouldn't mind the Uno's ridiculously high top gear being lower - like on my Punto Cabrio. but then we're making it even lower because of 13" wheels. That I know wd be the effect of the 6sp Punto box - fractionally even lower in 6th than the normal Punto 5th as in my Cabrio

Done some research and calcs, and now think (once more) that a mk.2 Punto 6sp box wd be ideal in my Uno with 13" wheels.

The Uno feels ridiculously high geared - I calc in 2.91 5th it does, on
155/70x13s -188m/1000revs or on
175/60x13s -186m/1000revs

My old mk.1 ELX75 and now my ELX85 Punto cab both feel geared just right, for their weight - in 3.35 5th they do, on
185/55x14s - 167m/1000revs

My mk.1 ELX90 Punto cab felt a bit high geared - in 3.19 5th it did, on
185/55x14s - 175m/1000revs

A mk.2 Sporting 6sp Punto must feel even higher geared - in 3.12 6th it does, on
185/55x14s - 179m/1000revs

That same 6sp box, coupled to 1242 ELX85 mk.2 motor, in the lighter Uno - in 3.12 6th it wd do, on
175/60x13s -173m/1000revs

That sounds good, in a lightweight (remember a SX70 is 150kg lighter than a UT) - 6th as a real overdrive.
The key point is that the Uno's 175/60x13s @ 540mm circum, are in fact only 3.5% smaller than the Punto's 185/55x14s @ 559mm circum.

Anyone care to verify my figures?

 

[rawill]

Good work, I had thought of putting Punto wheels on my car but when I see your figures I think, not worth it.

I will accept your figures.
Tyre sellers often have a chart that compares sizes a bit like you have done.
Anyway you get a softer ride with 70 sidewalls compared with lower profiles.
And more roll!!

I have 175/70/13s on my Uno 70-s.
I have my plan to put my 1600 tipo block in it.
Hopefully it will get a bit more torque and some more hp.
But torque is what I really want.

I don't really want an Uno going much faster that 130kph!

 

[Louie Bee]

Sorry but I don't think the 6 speed box will fit onto a 89 70SX if the 6 speed is from a FIRE Engine?

70SX is the non fire 1299 / 1301 nat asp Lampredi engine.

or am I missing something?

 

[fostertom]

Thanks, correct, but i said

That same 6sp box, coupled to 1242 ELX85 mk.2 motor, in the lighter Uno