hi i am new to this forum i was wondering if anyone can help I race a 1300 uno which has distrubitor with points in it and a 4 speed gearbox.. i recently bought a 1993 i.o ie uno hobby which i presume has a fire engine in it ..I was wondering could the electronic system of the distrubitor be used in my race car and also are the gearboxs interchangable
Technical distrubitor mixing / Track Uno
- Thread starter bill/uno
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Technical distrubitor mixing / Track Uno
Re: distrubitor mixing
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the forum!
The problem with your question is that the 1.3 ohc engine and the 1.0 FIRE engine are totally different designs. I assume that as your 1.3 has points ignition and only a four speed gearbox (I thought all 1.3's had five speeds?) it must be a mk1?
As far as I'm aware, the distributors are totally different. The 1.3 distributor is probably mounted low down at the front of the engine (some later 1.4's ran off the camshaft), whereas the FIRE distributor runs off the end of the camshaft. I'm pretty sure they are not interchangeable as a bolt in swap. Whether you can swap the internals over I'm not sure, you'll have to look and see.
However, later 1.1 (non FIRE)/1.3/ 1.4 Uno's had electronic distributors, and if you can find one of these then you should be able to fit it to your engine. You will also need to wire in an electrical feed to the small finned unit on the side of the distributor. There were a couple of ohc non FIRE distributors for sale on Ebay a while back, but I'm not sure if they're still available.
As for the gearbox, if your 1.3 is a mk1 and the 1.0 i.e. is a mk2 the first problem you will have is that the mk1 uses a cable clutch and the mk2 uses hydraulic. It must be possible to convert, though I haven't done this.
On the mk1, the 1.0 FIRE gearbox and the 1.3 gearbox were pretty much the same. The differences were in the final drive ratio and also they used different bell housings.
I tried to fit a 1.3 five speed to my old 1.0 45 four speed, but that was when I found the bellhousings were different. It must be possible to swap over the bellhousings, but the bell housing also holds a lot of the gear shafts in the gearbox in place. It looked like it was going to cause too many additional problems so I didn't bother and just refitted my old 4 speed unit.
Your best bet is to find a late 5 speed mk1 non FIRE 1.1 or 1.3 Uno that has the parts you need. That way it will all swap over without any problems.
Hope this helps!
Chas
bill/uno said:
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the forum!
The problem with your question is that the 1.3 ohc engine and the 1.0 FIRE engine are totally different designs. I assume that as your 1.3 has points ignition and only a four speed gearbox (I thought all 1.3's had five speeds?) it must be a mk1?
As far as I'm aware, the distributors are totally different. The 1.3 distributor is probably mounted low down at the front of the engine (some later 1.4's ran off the camshaft), whereas the FIRE distributor runs off the end of the camshaft. I'm pretty sure they are not interchangeable as a bolt in swap. Whether you can swap the internals over I'm not sure, you'll have to look and see.
However, later 1.1 (non FIRE)/1.3/ 1.4 Uno's had electronic distributors, and if you can find one of these then you should be able to fit it to your engine. You will also need to wire in an electrical feed to the small finned unit on the side of the distributor. There were a couple of ohc non FIRE distributors for sale on Ebay a while back, but I'm not sure if they're still available.
As for the gearbox, if your 1.3 is a mk1 and the 1.0 i.e. is a mk2 the first problem you will have is that the mk1 uses a cable clutch and the mk2 uses hydraulic. It must be possible to convert, though I haven't done this.
On the mk1, the 1.0 FIRE gearbox and the 1.3 gearbox were pretty much the same. The differences were in the final drive ratio and also they used different bell housings.
I tried to fit a 1.3 five speed to my old 1.0 45 four speed, but that was when I found the bellhousings were different. It must be possible to swap over the bellhousings, but the bell housing also holds a lot of the gear shafts in the gearbox in place. It looked like it was going to cause too many additional problems so I didn't bother and just refitted my old 4 speed unit.
Your best bet is to find a late 5 speed mk1 non FIRE 1.1 or 1.3 Uno that has the parts you need. That way it will all swap over without any problems.
Hope this helps!
Chas
Re: distrubitor mixing
Hi bill/uno,
Welcome to the forum!
To continue the good advice from Chas, in my opinion the answer to your questions are 'no' and 'no'.
The gearboxes are not interchangeable between the FIRE and 1116/1299/1301/1372cc engines. Although it may be possible to swap bellhousings, I would not consider it. Unless you are skilled at setting endfloat/bearing clearance etc. I think the gearbox should be left as a sealed unit!
The distributor design is different. The electronic module, pickup plate, and vacuum advance, are interchangeable. The shaft and drive dog for the FIRE engine's camshaft are completely incompatible with the other engines.
As Chas says, your best bet is to pick up a distributor from a scrapyard off a later (post-'86) Uno 60 or Uno 70. There are also some available on eBay (I bought an electronic distributor a few months back for a bargain 10 pounds, brand new!)
As for the gearbox, that largely depends on how well your 4-speed is working. It sounds like you have an Uno 55 or Uno 60 (1116cc) rather than a 70, because I don't believe the 70 came with a 4-speed 'box.
Bear in mind that these gearboxes are now old/high-mileage, so a unit from a scrapyard is likely to have a myriad of possible faults: weak synchromesh on third gear most likely, possibly bearing noise (in particular the input shaft bearing, which may fail and leak oil all over the clutch), chewed reverse gear (noisy/jumps out), non-existent first gear synchro, whine from differential. Typically, the engine outlives the gearbox by many thousands of miles!
Therefore if your 4-speed is working well, I would not bother replacing it. The fifth gear is only for motorway use (practically), where it makes a couple of mpg difference at speeds over 60mph. If you have the 1116cc engine, it's even less relevant, and pointless for an Uno used solely around town. In fact, you shouldn't use 5th gear below about 40-50mph, because it is added onto the gearbox in an extension housing, it is not designed for the low-speed, high-torque loading (or so I have read). From an engineering standpoint, it doesn't look good! The first four gears lie between the shaft bearings, while the fifth gears are 'cantilevered' off the end of the shafts outside the shaft bearings - there would be lubrication questions also.
Since you mention racing, you might like to consider that the quoted top-speed of a normally-aspirated Uno (not Turbo or Diesel Turbo) is always higher in fourth gear than fifth gear. The 4-speed and 5-speed 'boxes have the same ratios for 1-2-3-4, so 5th is an 'overdrive'. Given that maximum speed is reached in 4th, that tells you that the 4th gear is the optimum ratio. In other words, the 5-speed does not have closer ratios than the 4-speed... it offers no benefit for performance driving.
Thanks,
-Alex
Hi bill/uno,
Welcome to the forum!
To continue the good advice from Chas, in my opinion the answer to your questions are 'no' and 'no'.
The gearboxes are not interchangeable between the FIRE and 1116/1299/1301/1372cc engines. Although it may be possible to swap bellhousings, I would not consider it. Unless you are skilled at setting endfloat/bearing clearance etc. I think the gearbox should be left as a sealed unit!
The distributor design is different. The electronic module, pickup plate, and vacuum advance, are interchangeable. The shaft and drive dog for the FIRE engine's camshaft are completely incompatible with the other engines.
As Chas says, your best bet is to pick up a distributor from a scrapyard off a later (post-'86) Uno 60 or Uno 70. There are also some available on eBay (I bought an electronic distributor a few months back for a bargain 10 pounds, brand new!)
As for the gearbox, that largely depends on how well your 4-speed is working. It sounds like you have an Uno 55 or Uno 60 (1116cc) rather than a 70, because I don't believe the 70 came with a 4-speed 'box.
Bear in mind that these gearboxes are now old/high-mileage, so a unit from a scrapyard is likely to have a myriad of possible faults: weak synchromesh on third gear most likely, possibly bearing noise (in particular the input shaft bearing, which may fail and leak oil all over the clutch), chewed reverse gear (noisy/jumps out), non-existent first gear synchro, whine from differential. Typically, the engine outlives the gearbox by many thousands of miles!
Therefore if your 4-speed is working well, I would not bother replacing it. The fifth gear is only for motorway use (practically), where it makes a couple of mpg difference at speeds over 60mph. If you have the 1116cc engine, it's even less relevant, and pointless for an Uno used solely around town. In fact, you shouldn't use 5th gear below about 40-50mph, because it is added onto the gearbox in an extension housing, it is not designed for the low-speed, high-torque loading (or so I have read). From an engineering standpoint, it doesn't look good! The first four gears lie between the shaft bearings, while the fifth gears are 'cantilevered' off the end of the shafts outside the shaft bearings - there would be lubrication questions also.
Since you mention racing, you might like to consider that the quoted top-speed of a normally-aspirated Uno (not Turbo or Diesel Turbo) is always higher in fourth gear than fifth gear. The 4-speed and 5-speed 'boxes have the same ratios for 1-2-3-4, so 5th is an 'overdrive'. Given that maximum speed is reached in 4th, that tells you that the 4th gear is the optimum ratio. In other words, the 5-speed does not have closer ratios than the 4-speed... it offers no benefit for performance driving.
Thanks,
-Alex
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Re: distrubitor mixing
Hi All,
I can’t add anything to those posts, apart from welcome to the forum bill/uno
Kind Regards,
Hi All,
I can’t add anything to those posts, apart from welcome to the forum bill/uno
Kind Regards,
Re: distrubitor mixing
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the mk1 turbo gearbox is actually the same as a Strada 105TC. A turbo gearbox should bolt straight on to your 1.3, or maybe if you can find a 105TC Strada gearbox perhaps that would work also. Both are rare on the second hand market, but have closer ratios than the standard 5 speed box.
Alex is right in saying that a standard five speed 'box is of little use for racing because you're unlikely to need fifth. In fact, going by the Haynes manual even 4th is actually an overdrive. Not much use around town, but I find fifth very handy on the motorway. At 80mph my little 1.0 litre is only doing about 3400rpm!
Your other option is to experiment with the final drive ratio of your current 4 speeder. Different ratios were fitted to the 899, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.3 gearboxes. According to the Haynes manual, the 1.0 FIRE and 1.3 have the same final drive ratios of 3.733 : 1. However, it also says in that the early 45's (overhead valve models I assume) had a lower final drive ratio of 4.071 : 1. You could choose the one that suits your racing needs for best acceleration, but it would require a gearbox rebuild to fit.
Do you have any pictures of your racing Uno Bill? If you do, how about posting some up on here? Would be nice to see a race trimmed Uno!
Chas
bill/uno said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the mk1 turbo gearbox is actually the same as a Strada 105TC. A turbo gearbox should bolt straight on to your 1.3, or maybe if you can find a 105TC Strada gearbox perhaps that would work also. Both are rare on the second hand market, but have closer ratios than the standard 5 speed box.
Alex is right in saying that a standard five speed 'box is of little use for racing because you're unlikely to need fifth. In fact, going by the Haynes manual even 4th is actually an overdrive. Not much use around town, but I find fifth very handy on the motorway. At 80mph my little 1.0 litre is only doing about 3400rpm!
Your other option is to experiment with the final drive ratio of your current 4 speeder. Different ratios were fitted to the 899, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.3 gearboxes. According to the Haynes manual, the 1.0 FIRE and 1.3 have the same final drive ratios of 3.733 : 1. However, it also says in that the early 45's (overhead valve models I assume) had a lower final drive ratio of 4.071 : 1. You could choose the one that suits your racing needs for best acceleration, but it would require a gearbox rebuild to fit.
Do you have any pictures of your racing Uno Bill? If you do, how about posting some up on here? Would be nice to see a race trimmed Uno!
Chas
Re: distrubitor mixing
Hi Chas,
I met the owner of this Uno at Brooklands (I think) http://www.sfconline.org.uk/forum/frame.asp?imgId=82 - If it’s the one he was telling me about, its perhaps the one driven by the guy who took the 1984 track records (for all cars) in Jersey If I recall. Not the exact one as it got written off
The Uno also holds the record for number of challenges to the title – so many drivers were gutted as they got whooped by an Uno and could do nothing about it
It’s a shame the guy has an X/19 in bits parked in front of it in bits – as he would have brought her to Brooklands. There will be other times as he isn't selling either of his Uno Turbos
Hi Chas,
I met the owner of this Uno at Brooklands (I think) http://www.sfconline.org.uk/forum/frame.asp?imgId=82 - If it’s the one he was telling me about, its perhaps the one driven by the guy who took the 1984 track records (for all cars) in Jersey If I recall. Not the exact one as it got written off
The Uno also holds the record for number of challenges to the title – so many drivers were gutted as they got whooped by an Uno
and could do nothing about it It’s a shame the guy has an X/19 in bits parked in front of it in bits – as he would have brought her to Brooklands. There will be other times as he isn't selling either of his Uno Turbos
Nice – I Like it!Funny how F R O S T Y is thinking of putting a Mk1 front end on his MK2 – LOL You could have swapped. I'm taming to the MK1 Look - especially after Brooklands.
Regards,
smokeme
Established member
bill/uno said:
Yes to both questions, and no i didn't bother to read the other replies because i already know the answers.
The gearboxes are as follows:
903, 999, 1108, 1372 use the C501 this is the one you have, it uses rods to shift and was available in 4 and 5 speed version with different final ratios.
999, 1108, 1242, 1368 use the C514 this uses one rod and one cable and is available in 5 and 6 speed versions. (the 1368 is the new fire engine btw)
The distributor can be interchanged but there were some differences, i can't remember what they were right now.
