y tho?
I have a nice mkI 4x4 with the old pushrod 965cc engine.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189288&stc=1&d=1521898375
While it was ok....ish, I never had much confidence in it. Engine swaps are limited for the early cars like mine as a FIRE series will not fit....different bell housing, different engine mounts, different exhaust routing.....anything is possible, but its not really a simple swap.
The only "bolt in" solution is to keep the same basic block, which leaves the 899cc unit as fitted to the Cinquecento and some Seicentos.
While reducing capacity may seem silly to some, the advantages are many - getting rid of the crappy carburettor and useless autochoke and getting SPI fuel injection instead....getting rid of the wobbly distributer and less than reliable points and condensor and getting DIS electronic ignition, and in my case getting rid of a nasty dry bearing noise from the camshaft area of the old engine.
So is it easy? well, yeah, it is actually - its not a total breeze but its not incredibly complex either, its basic spannerwork and minimal wiring.
Im not saying this is THE way to do it, there are loads of variations to cars throughout the production run so you might encounter differences, plus I am in France, so LHD, which will be slightly different to UK.
I bought a whole Cinq cheaply because it had blown its head gasket.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189289&stc=1&d=1521898856
I fixed the gasket first and ran the car for a while to test the engine, then pulled the engine out.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189290&stc=1&d=1521898969
I then dropped out the whole Panda engine and gearbox by lowering it out the bottom of the car and seperated it from the gearbox on the floor.
The cinq engine bolts straight on to the 4x4 gearbox, using the original 4x4 clutch (mine was only a few hundred miles old so I never changed it, you should probably change yours if its old) and then lifts up into the Panda engine bay as normal and bolts right in using the standard engine mounts.
My engine mounts were a little tired so I filled the voids in the rubber up with sikaflex to strengthen them a bit and reduce engine rocking.
With the basic engine in place, you can start with the ancillaries.
The wiring to the starter and alternator is the same between both engines, so just use the original Panda wiring. Other original Panda wiring to keep is the electric radiator fan, gearbox reverse light switch and 4x4 selector light switch, temperature sender for the gauge which is the single spade terminal on the left corner of the cylinder head and the oil pressure switch which is the single wire down the back of the engine block. The only thing that needs disconnected and removed/taped off is the feed to the original coil, which you no longer need.
The injection and ignition loom for the the Cinq motor is almost fully self-contained. From the ECU (silver box on the right of the engine bay), a fat loom of wiring goes to the throttle body and coil packs. This is everything needed for all the sensors, injector and coil packs. It also incorporates the fuel pump relay and fuses. Following this loom you will also find wiring to the crank position sensor and lambda sensor. Just unplug everything carefully and note where things go. If I am unsure, I like to use a tippex pen to mark plugs and sockets so I know where the need to go when i reassemble.
There are also a few pipes and hoses to the throttle body which we will get to later....again mark them with tippex if unsure.
From the injection loom, there are a few connections that need to be made to the car. Near the front slam panel is a single fat red wire which clips into the loom via a single pin connector. This is a permanant live feed to the ECU. I connected this to the back of the fusebox, one of the fat brown wires is permanant live. Near the ECu itself is another single wire connector with a green and black wire, this is the feed to the electric fuel pump (see later) and there is a multi-plug with four wires....orange, grey/green, red/white, black/purple.
Orange is an ignition live feed to the ecu, so I connected that to the ignition switch which I will talk about later too.
grey/green and black/purple are the connections to the immobiliser code box.
red/white is the signal wire for the engine management light.
The immobiliser box.....
Under the steering column of the cinquecento, behind the fuse box is a little black box with two multiplugs. One goes to the ingition switch, the other has five wires which disappear into the loom...
red, orange/white, grey/green, white/yellow, and black/purple.
Follow the first plug up to the ignition switch and you will find the induction loop which is clipped to the end of the switch, which signals the transponder chip in the key. You need this and the key.
The easiest option at this point is to tape the key to the loop and just tuck it under the dash somewhere and keep using the panda ignition switch, but I wanted to use the new style key and have a working immobiliser so I took off the Pandas ignition switch....you need a Dremmel or similar to cut slots in the two bolts holding it to the steering column and unscrew them with a flat screwdriver. The entire steering lock and ignition barrel from the cinquecento just bolts straight on, so you will now use the cinq key in your panda. the wiring to the ingition switch is different though so needs modified. the Panda has four wires from the switch, the cinq has several that plug into the switch via two plugs. I cut the cinq plugs off the loom, leaving a few inches of wires and cut the connector off the panda switch.
The Panda switch colours are red, brown, blue and black. You need to connect them to the cinq switch as follows....
looking at the back of the plugs, they are laid out like this....
1
2 3 4
5 6 7
2 - blue
5 - black
6 - brown
7 - red
use decent crimps or solder and heatshrink - there is a fair bit of current through these wires so be careful.
I then refitted the induction loop to the end of the switch and ran the wire to the code box which I mounted behind where the stereo goes.
The code box then needs wired as follows...
Red - permanant live. I connected this to the ignition switch loom while I was in there.
orange/white - ignition live, again I connected to the ignition switch, with the orange from the ecu loom mentioned earlier.
grey/green - connects to the grey/green from the ecu plug
black/purple - also connects to the black/purple from the ecu plug.
white/yellow - signal for the code light on the dash.
The code light isnt really important, you could just do without and cut that wire off. I wanted it to work in case of immobiliser problems so fitted a 12v led to the centre console. I also wanted the engine management light to work, so again a 12v led. Both LEDS took an ignition live feed from the stereo wiring to the positive led terminals and the negative terminals connected to the wires from the ecu and code box. They are switched earths so this is whats needed to make them work.
And thats all thats needed for the wiring.
In the engine bay I fitted the ECU up under the scuttle, behind the plastic covers so its out of sight. This leaves the engine bay looking fairly standard. The wiring loom is just long enough and I just glued the ECU to the bulkhead with sikaflex to stop it rattling about.
The electric fuel pump, which is the green/black wire from the ecu loom needs fitted at the back of the car. I got a universal in-line electric pump from ebay...It needs to be a minimum of 100 litres per hour and 1 bar pressure. mine is something like 3 bar but the throttle body has a built in pressure regulator so no problem. I earthed the fuel pump with a ring terminal to the bodywork where i mounted it.
the standard panda fuel lines are 6mm plastic. The cinq is 8mm plastic. You can join these by pushing one into the other and using superglue to secure it. they are a mega-tight fit, so easily withstand the pressure, or change all the lines for 8mm stuff if you can be bothered. Fit an in-line fuel filter after the pump.
the panda already has a return line to the tank so nothing else needs added.
I used jubilee clips to fix the pump and filter to the floor next to the fuel tank.
make sure your tank breather is unblocked. this is a random pipe that hangs down near the fuel tank. If this is blocked, the fuel pump will create a vacuum in the tank as it uses fuel and the tank will start to collapse.
The exhaust uses the standard Panda manifold and downpipe but needs the lamdba sensor fitted to it. I got a weld-on lambda boss from ebay and drilled a hole in the downpipe and welded it on. The sensor screws into place as normal and connects to the ECU loom.
The throttle body pipework...
There is a fat plastic line to the brake servo on the cinq which is not needed on the Panda, so I plugged this hose with a bolt and sikaflex.
There is another plastic line that goes to the vapour recovery cannister on the cing down behind the front bumper - this also just needs plugged off. The wiring to this is part of the ECU loom. I couldnt get a straight answer on if its needed or not so I snapped the solenoid off the cannister, plugged it into the loom and just shoved it out of the way behind where i mounted the ECU.
There is another small diameter plastic line which goes from the throttle body to a wee sensor originally mounted by the ecu. I think this is a pressure or vacuum sensor of some kind so I just fitted it as it was in the cinquecento.
The cooling system is slightly different. The Panda had a take-off on the left end of the cylinder head, but the cinq has it on the thermostat housing, so that needs shifted. The main problem is the thermostat housing faces the wrong way so the radiator top hose doesnt fit. I rummaged around in a scrapyard and found an S-shaped hose from a pug 206 that fits straight on with no modification. You dont need the cinq header tank as the Panda has a sprung radiator cap and overflow tank already.
And thats it really.
I didnt want the plastic air filter housing as i think it looks terrible so I cut a round hole in the bottom of the original metal air filter housing to match the throttle body and bolted that down, so my engine bay looks pretty much standard apart from some extra wires.
On the road its just better....Its not more powerfull, probably about the same, but it starts first turn of the key hot or cold, idles perfectly, no crappy autochoke etc. It pulls cleanly without bogging down and is just entirely more driveable and confidence-inspiring.
I have a nice mkI 4x4 with the old pushrod 965cc engine.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189288&stc=1&d=1521898375
While it was ok....ish, I never had much confidence in it. Engine swaps are limited for the early cars like mine as a FIRE series will not fit....different bell housing, different engine mounts, different exhaust routing.....anything is possible, but its not really a simple swap.
The only "bolt in" solution is to keep the same basic block, which leaves the 899cc unit as fitted to the Cinquecento and some Seicentos.
While reducing capacity may seem silly to some, the advantages are many - getting rid of the crappy carburettor and useless autochoke and getting SPI fuel injection instead....getting rid of the wobbly distributer and less than reliable points and condensor and getting DIS electronic ignition, and in my case getting rid of a nasty dry bearing noise from the camshaft area of the old engine.
So is it easy? well, yeah, it is actually - its not a total breeze but its not incredibly complex either, its basic spannerwork and minimal wiring.
Im not saying this is THE way to do it, there are loads of variations to cars throughout the production run so you might encounter differences, plus I am in France, so LHD, which will be slightly different to UK.
I bought a whole Cinq cheaply because it had blown its head gasket.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189289&stc=1&d=1521898856
I fixed the gasket first and ran the car for a while to test the engine, then pulled the engine out.
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189290&stc=1&d=1521898969
I then dropped out the whole Panda engine and gearbox by lowering it out the bottom of the car and seperated it from the gearbox on the floor.
The cinq engine bolts straight on to the 4x4 gearbox, using the original 4x4 clutch (mine was only a few hundred miles old so I never changed it, you should probably change yours if its old) and then lifts up into the Panda engine bay as normal and bolts right in using the standard engine mounts.
My engine mounts were a little tired so I filled the voids in the rubber up with sikaflex to strengthen them a bit and reduce engine rocking.
With the basic engine in place, you can start with the ancillaries.
The wiring to the starter and alternator is the same between both engines, so just use the original Panda wiring. Other original Panda wiring to keep is the electric radiator fan, gearbox reverse light switch and 4x4 selector light switch, temperature sender for the gauge which is the single spade terminal on the left corner of the cylinder head and the oil pressure switch which is the single wire down the back of the engine block. The only thing that needs disconnected and removed/taped off is the feed to the original coil, which you no longer need.
The injection and ignition loom for the the Cinq motor is almost fully self-contained. From the ECU (silver box on the right of the engine bay), a fat loom of wiring goes to the throttle body and coil packs. This is everything needed for all the sensors, injector and coil packs. It also incorporates the fuel pump relay and fuses. Following this loom you will also find wiring to the crank position sensor and lambda sensor. Just unplug everything carefully and note where things go. If I am unsure, I like to use a tippex pen to mark plugs and sockets so I know where the need to go when i reassemble.
There are also a few pipes and hoses to the throttle body which we will get to later....again mark them with tippex if unsure.
From the injection loom, there are a few connections that need to be made to the car. Near the front slam panel is a single fat red wire which clips into the loom via a single pin connector. This is a permanant live feed to the ECU. I connected this to the back of the fusebox, one of the fat brown wires is permanant live. Near the ECu itself is another single wire connector with a green and black wire, this is the feed to the electric fuel pump (see later) and there is a multi-plug with four wires....orange, grey/green, red/white, black/purple.
Orange is an ignition live feed to the ecu, so I connected that to the ignition switch which I will talk about later too.
grey/green and black/purple are the connections to the immobiliser code box.
red/white is the signal wire for the engine management light.
The immobiliser box.....
Under the steering column of the cinquecento, behind the fuse box is a little black box with two multiplugs. One goes to the ingition switch, the other has five wires which disappear into the loom...
red, orange/white, grey/green, white/yellow, and black/purple.
Follow the first plug up to the ignition switch and you will find the induction loop which is clipped to the end of the switch, which signals the transponder chip in the key. You need this and the key.
The easiest option at this point is to tape the key to the loop and just tuck it under the dash somewhere and keep using the panda ignition switch, but I wanted to use the new style key and have a working immobiliser so I took off the Pandas ignition switch....you need a Dremmel or similar to cut slots in the two bolts holding it to the steering column and unscrew them with a flat screwdriver. The entire steering lock and ignition barrel from the cinquecento just bolts straight on, so you will now use the cinq key in your panda. the wiring to the ingition switch is different though so needs modified. the Panda has four wires from the switch, the cinq has several that plug into the switch via two plugs. I cut the cinq plugs off the loom, leaving a few inches of wires and cut the connector off the panda switch.
The Panda switch colours are red, brown, blue and black. You need to connect them to the cinq switch as follows....
looking at the back of the plugs, they are laid out like this....
1
2 3 4
5 6 7
2 - blue
5 - black
6 - brown
7 - red
use decent crimps or solder and heatshrink - there is a fair bit of current through these wires so be careful.
I then refitted the induction loop to the end of the switch and ran the wire to the code box which I mounted behind where the stereo goes.
The code box then needs wired as follows...
Red - permanant live. I connected this to the ignition switch loom while I was in there.
orange/white - ignition live, again I connected to the ignition switch, with the orange from the ecu loom mentioned earlier.
grey/green - connects to the grey/green from the ecu plug
black/purple - also connects to the black/purple from the ecu plug.
white/yellow - signal for the code light on the dash.
The code light isnt really important, you could just do without and cut that wire off. I wanted it to work in case of immobiliser problems so fitted a 12v led to the centre console. I also wanted the engine management light to work, so again a 12v led. Both LEDS took an ignition live feed from the stereo wiring to the positive led terminals and the negative terminals connected to the wires from the ecu and code box. They are switched earths so this is whats needed to make them work.
And thats all thats needed for the wiring.
In the engine bay I fitted the ECU up under the scuttle, behind the plastic covers so its out of sight. This leaves the engine bay looking fairly standard. The wiring loom is just long enough and I just glued the ECU to the bulkhead with sikaflex to stop it rattling about.
The electric fuel pump, which is the green/black wire from the ecu loom needs fitted at the back of the car. I got a universal in-line electric pump from ebay...It needs to be a minimum of 100 litres per hour and 1 bar pressure. mine is something like 3 bar but the throttle body has a built in pressure regulator so no problem. I earthed the fuel pump with a ring terminal to the bodywork where i mounted it.
the standard panda fuel lines are 6mm plastic. The cinq is 8mm plastic. You can join these by pushing one into the other and using superglue to secure it. they are a mega-tight fit, so easily withstand the pressure, or change all the lines for 8mm stuff if you can be bothered. Fit an in-line fuel filter after the pump.
the panda already has a return line to the tank so nothing else needs added.
I used jubilee clips to fix the pump and filter to the floor next to the fuel tank.
make sure your tank breather is unblocked. this is a random pipe that hangs down near the fuel tank. If this is blocked, the fuel pump will create a vacuum in the tank as it uses fuel and the tank will start to collapse.
The exhaust uses the standard Panda manifold and downpipe but needs the lamdba sensor fitted to it. I got a weld-on lambda boss from ebay and drilled a hole in the downpipe and welded it on. The sensor screws into place as normal and connects to the ECU loom.
The throttle body pipework...
There is a fat plastic line to the brake servo on the cinq which is not needed on the Panda, so I plugged this hose with a bolt and sikaflex.
There is another plastic line that goes to the vapour recovery cannister on the cing down behind the front bumper - this also just needs plugged off. The wiring to this is part of the ECU loom. I couldnt get a straight answer on if its needed or not so I snapped the solenoid off the cannister, plugged it into the loom and just shoved it out of the way behind where i mounted the ECU.
There is another small diameter plastic line which goes from the throttle body to a wee sensor originally mounted by the ecu. I think this is a pressure or vacuum sensor of some kind so I just fitted it as it was in the cinquecento.
The cooling system is slightly different. The Panda had a take-off on the left end of the cylinder head, but the cinq has it on the thermostat housing, so that needs shifted. The main problem is the thermostat housing faces the wrong way so the radiator top hose doesnt fit. I rummaged around in a scrapyard and found an S-shaped hose from a pug 206 that fits straight on with no modification. You dont need the cinq header tank as the Panda has a sprung radiator cap and overflow tank already.
And thats it really.
I didnt want the plastic air filter housing as i think it looks terrible so I cut a round hole in the bottom of the original metal air filter housing to match the throttle body and bolted that down, so my engine bay looks pretty much standard apart from some extra wires.
On the road its just better....Its not more powerfull, probably about the same, but it starts first turn of the key hot or cold, idles perfectly, no crappy autochoke etc. It pulls cleanly without bogging down and is just entirely more driveable and confidence-inspiring.
