Common Causes of Electrical faults in Panda classics

[Dragon Man]

Earths. Don't worry it is not as bad as it sounds!

the panda classics have 4 Earthing points. the locations are:
note that the following pictures are from a panda 4x4 that has had a Punto engine installed. the earthing points are all in the same place as before the engine swap.

• Near battery inside engine bay Under suspension strut (Internal/dash wiring)
  
• Just in front of the washer bottle behind the cars left hand side headlamp (Front lighting, radiator fan)
  
• Under cabin heating blower/fan box (Main battery connection to chassis of Panda. cable leading battery to chassis to engine.)
  This is a common failure point on both pandas and cinquecentos. if suspect, connect a
  thick cable from the engine to the body of the car then check results to see if its fixed it!
  
• Behind the cars Left hand rear light cluster (Rear lights)
  

Any electrical anomalies such as fuel or temperature gauge acting strangely, dimming of lights or on more modern Pandas lengthy ECU light illuminating after engine start up can be caused by faulty earthing.


Cleaning and applying copper slip to any of these earthing points should help to fix any of the previous stated problems.
also the middle connector in the main negative battery cable which connects the battery to the cars chassis/shell and engine can also fail at the shell earthing point. the engine and battery will remain connected but the crimp connection on the shell goes non-conductive. this can be fixed by running a thick cable from the engine/gearbox to the chassis/shell of the car.

keep in mind, you can Never over earth. it is always better to have more earths than lives. (maybe that is my experience with radio transmitters talking)

if problems continue, the fault could be down to "Wire Rot" where the copper in the earthing cable has just turned into an non conductive powder.
the fix around this is to cut back the wire till you get to nice clean golden copper wire and attach by solder or crimp connection a new length of new wire.

if this still has not fixed your fault, try doing search on the forum.
if that fails to find a solution, please make a post

 

[cableties]

both the windscreen wiper and heater on my panda have stopped working. Are they connected electrically, is there any advice that you could give?

thanks

 

[Dragon Man]

simple things first, have you checked all of the fuses? give each fuse a bit of a wiggle in the socket have you checked the earthing points? if so, for the blower fan try putting power directly into the connector to see if the motor its self has failed. you can find this behind the spare wheel behind the sound proofing. it will be a 3 pin plug. put a negative wire to the black and touch a positive wire to the brown or red wires. brown wire is full speed, red wire is half speed.
if the motor runs then the fault would be in the wiring of the car. use a battery and bulb to see if you can get a earth through the cars wiring if so the earth is ok. if not, run a new earth cable to an earthing point or use a eye crimp and run it to one of the bolts that hold the wiper motor in.
if you still get the issues try removing the switch and connecting the wires directly together. you will have 3 wires. one will be input power (check this to see if its live) and the other 2 will go to the red and brown wires on the motor.

as for the heated rear window, try replacing the end relay nearest the bonnet opening lever. failing that, check the wiring on the back window they sometimes pull off. you can jam them under the window rubber and still make a connection though.
a bulb on some wire can tell you if there is power getting to the back.

let us know how you get on.

 

[cableties]

Thanks for the swift reply! We (me and my flatmate) are all new to the wonders of the classic panda!

Firstly, by heater I meant the actual blower into the cab from the bonnet scoop. The fan which is operated by the 1 or 2 speed stalk switch on the dash. This currently dims the lights when they are on :/ and when the car hit a bump both the fan and my windscreen wiper spotaniously lived (for all of 3 seconds!).


As for our electrics, the fuses are fine. However we haven't got round to checking the earths yet.


The electrics problems are as follows:
The horn only works when the keys aren't in the car?!
Opperating the horn makes our engine temp gauge and fuel gauge go through the roof.
Turning the lights on makes us magically have more fuel ��
Operating the windscreen wipers dims the lights (but doesn't operate the wipers!)
Operating the blower fan switch dims the lights ( but doesn't operate the heater!)




Hopefully I'll have chance to check the earths tomorrow. I'll also test the direct 12v to the wiper motor.
We'll be uploading photos of the Italian stalian soon
Thanks in advance!
Laurence

 

[panda1408]

Well from that description it is almost certainly an earth issue. My first place to look will be the earth point under the heater box, follow the battery negative cable and you will find it. This is the only proper earth connection from the battery to the body and they have a habit of breaking. This then causes all sort of issues like the ones you describe.

Fixing is simple, you can either replace the complete cable (it carries on down to the starter also) or simply add an extra cable from the battery to the loom earthing point on the inner wing just below the battery.

 

[Dragon Man]

you can also add an extra cable (make sure it is rather thick though) from a bolt on the engine, to the main dash earthing point on the suspension strut top next to the battery.

i added some pictures of where the earthing points are to the first post. should help you out..

 

[ShamustheGreat]

you can also add an extra cable (make sure it is rather thick though) from a bolt on the engine, to the main dash earthing point on the suspension strut top next to the battery.

i added some pictures of where the earthing points are to the first post. should help you out..

Hi Guys,


I've been a happy owner of a 1992 1.0 CLX. Bought from a nice guy in Suffolk 9yrs ago, and generally speaking she's been really sweet (the car that is), and such fun to drive. Unfortunately she's developed an electrical problem, so I'm seeking advice:
Story starts like this:


Had not driven the car through the winter. a month ago I tried to start her and engine turned nicely but I think I probably flooded it (manual choke pulled out and was a damp cold day). Engine initially turned over well but after several cranks battery started to die. Took battery out and recharged it.
I also needed to fix the front windscreen wiper spline thingy, and so bought a replacement (of the arms and spline set, which the motor attaches to) and removed the old set. Have had problems getting the replacement to accept the old wiper motor (the three screws do not line up easily) so I've not managed to replace that yet.
I'm aware Dragonman has a fix for the front wiper, but due to the MOT renewal date being ontop of me I did not have time to work out what to do), anyway...


I put battery back in 3 days ago, and on turning the key to ignition initially all looked very good- lights on dash lit up as normal- fuel gage reading something.
When I turned the key to the start position everything suddenly went completely dead! No turning of engine and all dash lights out.
drat, and double drat !!
Initially when I pressed the hazard button I heard a very brief (0.5sec) quiet buzz from somewhere near the fuses in the drivers footwell, but that noise soon stopped, on repeated depressing of the hazard button.
So, diagnostics wise- I've tried running a jump start cable from the negative terminal to the engine block (to earth the battery), but that did not help. Then I tried switching around the 5-spade relays- still no joy.
Battery is still reading 12.4V.
and I'm out od ideas.
On hindsight I also think the old lead battery terminal clamps were just loose so probably did not need to recharge the battery.


Please help !

 

[panda1408]

Your problem sounds exactly like poor connection on the battery terminals. I would start by making sure they are clean and tight before doing anything else. After that check the connections to the starter, a poor connection here could cause the same problem. Also check the main body earth on the bulkhead under the heater box and follow it down to where it bolts to the gearbox. Its unlikely to be anything other than a bad connection really.

 

[ShamustheGreat]

Your problem sounds exactly like poor connection on the battery terminals. I would start by making sure they are clean and tight before doing anything else. After that check the connections to the starter, a poor connection here could cause the same problem. Also check the main body earth on the bulkhead under the heater box and follow it down to where it bolts to the gearbox. Its unlikely to be anything other than a bad connection really.

Hi Panda1408,
Thanks for the reply and the reassurance. I did trace the main earth lead to the engine block- the lead seemed tightly applied but it was dark and access to the end of the lead was not easy. I've read somewhere the lead crimp can fail, so I'll have another look. I did try putting a jump lead between the negative terminal and the engine block too.
I cleaned/abraded with sandpaper both the battery terminals and the inside of the terminal clamps before tightening, but did not use copper grease- didn't have any (I'm a very amateur mechanic).
Now that I've also seen Dragon Man's photos above I'll also look more closely at the other earth cables and have another general root around...
If I find the cause I'll let everyone know.

 

[Sjvarley]

Hi Panda1408,
Thanks for the reply and the reassurance. I did trace the main earth lead to the engine block- the lead seemed tightly applied but it was dark and access to the end of the lead was not easy. I've read somewhere the lead crimp can fail, so I'll have another look. I did try putting a jump lead between the negative terminal and the engine block too.
I cleaned/abraded with sandpaper both the battery terminals and the inside of the terminal clamps before tightening, but did not use copper grease- didn't have any (I'm a very amateur mechanic).
Now that I've also seen Dragon Man's photos above I'll also look more closely at the other earth cables and have another general root around...
If I find the cause I'll let everyone know.

Hi
Best to do to prove the fault is take a jump lead from the negative_ terminal of the battery
Connect it to the engine clean point then try to start if the vehicle turns over it defiantly a poor earth.
Remove all earths clean away any corrosion add copper grease re tighten

Point 2 if this fails repeat with the positive terminal +
Direct to the connection to the starter bolt make sure it's out of gear and keys out try again
Should turn over

If this fails try again applying both lead at the
same time
Try agin an

Hopefully this will locate the fault

 

[Didge3]

Don't know if I've missed something here so forgive me,

Have you tried another battery on the car? Just because the battery is showing a 12v doesn't mean its good, if you can get someone to turn the car over (or try to) and check the voltage at the same time, if the voltage is dropping below ~8v (the minimum, ideally want it above 9-10v) then the battery is no good. I had a dud battery that would hold a good 12v but as soon as you turned the engine over it'd drop to about 4v.

 

[Sjvarley]

Exactly test voltage then put lights on full beam and watch the volts go down

 

[mwjb]

Did you ever find out what your problem was and what to look for as I have this problem currently in my 1992 panda. The strange this is that it's very intermittent [emoji209][emoji846]

both the windscreen wiper and heater on my panda have stopped working. Are they connected electrically, is there any advice that you could give?

thanks