Technical Choosing a Qubo - Engines and other things

[Ashx]

Hey all !

I am Ash, i'm a new driver looking to buy my first car

I need a small MPV, which can accomodate my occasional projects as electrical engineer & electrician doing service calls (so sometimes carry electrical equipment), but rest of the time be a small personal car. The Qubo is spot on, and i am specifically looking into buying a Qubo

I want manual gear

There are several listed here on 2nd hand sales, some of which i have already checked out - Some are in better or worse condition than others



And here are some more considerations :

Roads

I live in the north of Israel. Most of our roads here are on an incline, sometimes modest incline for long sections, sometimes sharper inclines combined with a turn. In the attachments are a few representative pictures of the latter. (It is virtually impossible to express the exact incline of a straight road using pictures from Google, but i guess you may figure out what the road is like)

I do want to be able to drive reasonably well on those roads - 75+ Km/h on a straight and somewhat inclined uphill road, 60+ Km/h on smooth uphill turns, with some margin for reasonable maneuverability as much as the road allows, without hitting a power limit or overloading the engine

I don't aggressively overtake and cut in front of everyone who is on the border of the speed limit, just want to drive along with the flow of traffic without slowing down



Reliability

I am looking for a car which is reasonably reliable. I mean, cars do have things break sometimes, but there are things which are a minor fix and i can keep going, and there are things which are major trouble. I want to try to avoid the latter

From my side, i am going to maintain and treat the car well. From the car i expect to live for years (100's K km) without big trouble



For the road driving reason, i have started looking for the diesel version (Multijet 1.3 1248cc, 75hp), under assumption that it can "pull through" better on the roads i am aiming to drive on, provided the low motor power

At the same time, i dont really have a grasp on the difference in driving experience between a Qubo with diesel vs. petrol engines. I have driven 2 higher power cars on those roads (the instruction car i learned on - manual diesel, and mom's sedan - automatic petrol, both 100+ hp, none of them Fiat), and concluded that with a high enough power engine, i am ok with either engine option and don't have a specific preference. (Disregarding the fact i haven't tried a manual petrol yet at all)

At the same time, i have got (from multiple sources) recommendations to stay away from the Multijet and get a petrol version (as much as i know - Fire 1.4 1368cc, 75hp), due to possibility of getting into big trouble when the Multijet starts to fail

I am familiar with mechanical work (and reading about things i dont know to figure out) so many things that can be done at home i can do myself. The concerns are specifically about engine failures or other big/expensive trouble



So :

From your experience, how would either engine option behave on those roads ? Where will they differ from each other ? Will i hit a power limit and not be able to keep up ? Will i have to rev the engine into "overload" area to keep up ?

What sorts of engine-related trouble can be expected with either engine, and specifically with the Multijet ?

Is this trouble avoidable (or risk can be minimized) by looking at the engine condition at the time of buying (external signs e.g. leaks, sound) + proper maintenance and good treatment of the car once i got it ?

 

[bugsymike]

Hey all !

I am Ash, i'm a new driver looking to buy my first car

I need a small MPV, which can accomodate my occasional projects as electrical engineer & electrician doing service calls (so sometimes carry electrical equipment), but rest of the time be a small personal car. The Qubo is spot on, and i am specifically looking into buying a Qubo

I want manual gear

There are several listed here on 2nd hand sales, some of which i have already checked out - Some are in better or worse condition than others



And here are some more considerations :

Roads

I live in the north of Israel. Most of our roads here are on an incline, sometimes modest incline for long sections, sometimes sharper inclines combined with a turn. In the attachments are a few representative pictures of the latter. (It is virtually impossible to express the exact incline of a straight road using pictures from Google, but i guess you may figure out what the road is like)

I do want to be able to drive reasonably well on those roads - 75+ Km/h on a straight and somewhat inclined uphill road, 60+ Km/h on smooth uphill turns, with some margin for reasonable maneuverability as much as the road allows, without hitting a power limit or overloading the engine

I don't aggressively overtake and cut in front of everyone who is on the border of the speed limit, just want to drive along with the flow of traffic without slowing down



Reliability

I am looking for a car which is reasonably reliable. I mean, cars do have things break sometimes, but there are things which are a minor fix and i can keep going, and there are things which are major trouble. I want to try to avoid the latter

From my side, i am going to maintain and treat the car well. From the car i expect to live for years (100's K km) without big trouble



For the road driving reason, i have started looking for the diesel version (Multijet 1.3 1248cc, 75hp), under assumption that it can "pull through" better on the roads i am aiming to drive on, provided the low motor power

At the same time, i dont really have a grasp on the difference in driving experience between a Qubo with diesel vs. petrol engines. I have driven 2 higher power cars on those roads (the instruction car i learned on - manual diesel, and mom's sedan - automatic petrol, both 100+ hp, none of them Fiat), and concluded that with a high enough power engine, i am ok with either engine option and don't have a specific preference. (Disregarding the fact i haven't tried a manual petrol yet at all)

At the same time, i have got (from multiple sources) recommendations to stay away from the Multijet and get a petrol version (as much as i know - Fire 1.4 1368cc, 75hp), due to possibility of getting into big trouble when the Multijet starts to fail

I am familiar with mechanical work (and reading about things i dont know to figure out) so many things that can be done at home i can do myself. The concerns are specifically about engine failures or other big/expensive trouble



So :

From your experience, how would either engine option behave on those roads ? Where will they differ from each other ? Will i hit a power limit and not be able to keep up ? Will i have to rev the engine into "overload" area to keep up ?

What sorts of engine-related trouble can be expected with either engine, and specifically with the Multijet ?

Is this trouble avoidable (or risk can be minimized) by looking at the engine condition at the time of buying (external signs e.g. leaks, sound) + proper maintenance and good treatment of the car once i got it ?

Two of my daughters learnt to drive in diesel instructors cars with as you say larger engines meaning less likely to stall pulling away so giving beginners more confidence. My personal preference is larger diesels, however as a new driver, a modern medium size petrol engine car may be cheaper to insure and major repairs should be less with a petrol engine.
Small modern diesels go well for their size, however to get that power out I feel longevity loses.
At the end of the day, try several cars before you make up your mind.

 

[Ashx]

The load on the engine vs. engine life is one of my considerations

I assume this applies both to diesel and petrol engines. In which case, wouldn't I be shortening the life of the petrol engine, by having to rev it up to high rpm while going an uphill stretch on a country road, while a diesel would be able to take it at low rpm within the range of normal operation ?

I assume also that driving experience will also be impacted if i run an engine in a borderline-overload condition like that - driving at a power ceiling, without any additional headroom

- If the assumptions are right, then i do want the diesel, and willing to accept that maintenance will be more complex, and that occasionally diesel replacement parts (injectors, pumps, ....) need replacement, and might be more expensive / more different parts to look after than petrol

- What i absolutely dont want is "The engine blew up out of the blue, is damaged and needs major repair / replacement, despite i haven't given it any reason to". (While i do take the responsibility to maintain it properly well - no overheating, timing chain on time, oil on time, etc)

I plan to keep the car for many years, as long as i can make it keep going, so i do want to extend its life as much as possible. In a couple years i may consider getting also a small car, so i can pick which car to drive for the trip on hand to optimize fuel economy, as well as have a backup in case of trouble

I plan to do maintenance myself as much as possible. (I'm not a mechanic, but i am an engineer, am familiar with messing with cars and other machinery too, and dont mind extending my tool set whenever need arises)

Insurance costs, MOT costs, fuel economy, ..... are all less significant to me. (The differences are not that big to be detrimental)



And another question about the relation of load on the engine vs. engine life vs. engine size :

There are Multijet 1.3 engines with 75hp, 95hp, and possibly other ratings as well. I suppose that the main part of the engine is identical and only the mapping and some auxiliary parts will differ

The engine in Qubo is the 75hp. (The 95hp version i don't see anywhere, maybe it wasn't imported to here at all)

Isn't this by itself a safety margin ? (That the engine is limited to 75hp, even though it can take more)

 

[bugsymike]

The load on the engine vs. engine life is one of my considerations

I assume this applies both to diesel and petrol engines. In which case, wouldn't I be shortening the life of the petrol engine, by having to rev it up to high rpm while going an uphill stretch on a country road, while a diesel would be able to take it at low rpm within the range of normal operation ?

I assume also that driving experience will also be impacted if i run an engine in a borderline-overload condition like that - driving at a power ceiling, without any additional headroom

- If the assumptions are right, then i do want the diesel, and willing to accept that maintenance will be more complex, and that occasionally diesel replacement parts (injectors, pumps, ....) need replacement, and might be more expensive / more different parts to look after than petrol

- What i absolutely dont want is "The engine blew up out of the blue, is damaged and needs major repair / replacement, despite i haven't given it any reason to". (While i do take the responsibility to maintain it properly well - no overheating, timing chain on time, oil on time, etc)

I plan to keep the car for many years, as long as i can make it keep going, so i do want to extend its life as much as possible. In a couple years i may consider getting also a small car, so i can pick which car to drive for the trip on hand to optimize fuel economy, as well as have a backup in case of trouble

I plan to do maintenance myself as much as possible. (I'm not a mechanic, but i am an engineer, am familiar with messing with cars and other machinery too, and dont mind extending my tool set whenever need arises)

Insurance costs, MOT costs, fuel economy, ..... are all less significant to me. (The differences are not that big to be detrimental)



And another question about the relation of load on the engine vs. engine life vs. engine size :

There are Multijet 1.3 engines with 75hp, 95hp, and possibly other ratings as well. I suppose that the main part of the engine is identical and only the mapping and some auxiliary parts will differ

The engine in Qubo is the 75hp. (The 95hp version i don't see anywhere, maybe it wasn't imported to here at all)

Isn't this by itself a safety margin ? (That the engine is limited to 75hp, even though it can take more)

The 95Hp engine I think has the variable vane turbo plus ECU to suit etc. My daughters 1.3 75hp multijet Fiat diesel at 100k miles had at least two timing chains, one of which had worn through the timing cover causing oil to leak out
Petrol engine are lighter internally so rev better without overloading, they have a wider rev range than most diesels.Diesels have higher compression ratios so the pistons etc. are designed to cope with it, but the extra weight thrown up and down means high revs are not so good.
Generally big lazy engines last longer than small high reving ones petrol or diesel.
With all due respect I think you are over thinking the issue, if you buy a good car, service it regularly and drive sensible it should last a long time.

 

[Phi Qubo]

1.3 diesel 75hp will be fine on these roads. You will have to go down 1 or maybe 2 gears to get up some hills, but overall will be much more efficient. Mine has 100k miles and is ok apart from DPF getting a bit clogged needing foam cleaning (euro 5 get clogged more apparently).
They have more torque in low revs, peak is around 2k-3krpm. Over 3k-4k rpm they don't have much more power.

 

[Ashx]

How would the petrol one compare to the 75hp diesel ? At which rpm it would be normal (for getting the highest possible power but not overloading for the engine) to drive the petrol one in such conditions ?

I will go check out 2 cars (one with each engine) in the next week

 

[bunterboy]

I've got a 75bhp diesel Qubo, I fitted a little chip box ( bluespark or something) and it boosted the performance nicely when required. Still good mpg when not thrashing it too.

 

[Ashx]

Long lost thread...

I have since bought the Petrol Qubo with Fire 1.4, and it is great car with adequate power for everywhere i drive with it (without any mods). I would recommend the Petrol Qubo to anyone asking the same questions

Thanks !