Technical Cam Belt.

[Adam1984]

Hello,

How would I know if my cambelt is missing a tooth or not. Would it make a y different sound, or can someone with the 319 1.2 petrol engine show me a video of their engine so I can compare?

Also my brake grinding noise is still ongoing. So it's only doing it after the car has been travelling for a good few mins and then slowing down to brake it grinds. When I start the car from cold it doesn't happen straight away.

Can't get the bottom of it as mechanics have said they are new pads and discs, any other suggestions to try?

 

[Greasytrucker]

Hello,

How would I know if my cambelt is missing a tooth or not. Would it make a y different sound, or can someone with the 319 1.2 petrol engine show me a video of their engine so I can compare?

Also my brake grinding noise is still ongoing. So it's only doing it after the car has been travelling for a good few mins and then slowing down to brake it grinds. When I start the car from cold it doesn't happen straight away.

Can't get the bottom of it as mechanics have said they are new pads and discs, any other suggestions to try?

Could the grinding be the ABS playing up as that’s what it feels like when it kicks in normally

 

[Adam1984]

Could the grinding be the ABS playing up as that’s what it feels like when it kicks in normally

So what could be up with the ABS? It does make a high pitched noise sometimes too like a fluid sound

 

[Greasytrucker]

Faulty pump maybe, just an idea. Looks like Jock is typing now so you’ll get more thorough reply in a mo

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hello,

How would I know if my cambelt is missing a tooth or not. Would it make a y different sound, or can someone with the 319 1.2 petrol engine show me a video of their engine so I can compare?

Also my brake grinding noise is still ongoing. So it's only doing it after the car has been travelling for a good few mins and then slowing down to brake it grinds. When I start the car from cold it doesn't happen straight away.

Can't get the bottom of it as mechanics have said they are new pads and discs, any other suggestions to try?

Do you mean actually missing a tooth, as in a tooth has broken off or as in the belt has jumped a tooth so the timing is now incorrect?

As regards the brake noise, any chance of posting a recording of the noise? This sort of thing is just so difficult to meaningfully diagnose from a written description.

 

[Adam1984]

Do you mean actually missing a tooth, as in a tooth has broken off or as in the belt has jumped a tooth so the timing is now incorrect?

As regards the brake noise, any chance of posting a recording of the noise? This sort of thing is just so difficult to meaningfully diagnose from a written description.

I don't know. I just heard that the cambelt missing a tooth could be causing my rough idle and engine fluctuations.

I tried to take a video of the brake sound but it didn't happen when I tried to. I will try again tomorrow.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I don't know. I just heard that the cambelt missing a tooth could be causing my rough idle and engine fluctuations.

I tried to take a video of the brake sound but it didn't happen when I tried to. I will try again tomorrow.

Thanks, that's helpful. Regarding the cam belt "missing" a tooth. I'd guess that's a referal to the belt having skipped a tooth, perhaps due to it being incorrectly fitted or not properly tensioned or due to damage to the belt. Just being one or two teeth out will lead to rough idle and lack of pulling power, More than that and, on your later model engine, it can cause expensive engine damage. Did this happen suddenly or has it been like this for some time? To check it properly you'll need a set of timing tools as there is no timing mark on the camshaft pulley. Also there's belt covers to come off to fit the crankshaft locking tool and the camshaft cover (used to call them "rocker" covers) has to come off to use the cam locking tool. If you're not into quite "serious" driveway mechanicing it's probably a job for a wee Fiat specialist, who will probably tell you what's wrong with the brakes too. If you need to consult a workshop I'd recommend seeking out someone who knows their Fiats as the cam belt timing is known to confuse those less familiar with them.

Edit. Of course there's lots of other possibilities when it comes to rough idle and other engine running problems.

 

[Adam1984]

Thanks, that's helpful. Regarding the cam belt "missing" a tooth. I'd guess that's a referal to the belt having skipped a tooth, perhaps due to it being incorrectly fitted or not properly tensioned or due to damage to the belt. Just being one or two teeth out will lead to rough idle and lack of pulling power, More than that and, on your later model engine, it can cause expensive engine damage. Did this happen suddenly or has it been like this for some time? To check it properly you'll need a set of timing tools as there is no timing mark on the camshaft pulley. Also there's belt covers to come off to fit the crankshaft locking tool and the camshaft cover (used to call them "rocker" covers) has to come off to use the cam locking tool. If you're not into quite "serious" driveway mechanicing it's probably a job for a wee Fiat specialist, who will probably tell you what's wrong with the brakes too. If you need to consult a workshop I'd recommend seeking out someone who knows their Fiats as the cam belt timing is known to confuse those less familiar with them.

Edit. Of course there's lots of other possibilities when it comes to rough idle and other engine running problems.

Of course thank you. If you see the picture attached, this is also linked to some of the problems am having. Spark plugs is another issue.

It's so hard to find some fiat specialists around Merseyside.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Of course thank you. If you see the picture attached, this is also linked to some of the problems am having. Spark plugs is another issue.

It's so hard to find some fiat specialists around Merseyside.

Oh deary me. Ditch the AI. In very general terms it does mention stuff which might be the problem, but it's a bit like saying, "If you drink too much beer you're going to feel awful and probably be sick." and about as much use in the real world.

Is the check engine light illuminated on the dashboard when the engine is running? If it is then a fault code - or codes - will be stored in the ecu memory and getting this read with a code reader or scanner will be very helpful.

Spark plugs? more info needed, what sort of issue?

 

[Adam1984]

Oh deary me. Ditch the AI. In very general terms it does mention stuff which might be the problem, but it's a bit like saying, "If you drink too much beer you're going to feel awful and probably be sick." and about as much use in the real world.

Is the check engine light illuminated on the dashboard when the engine is running? If it is then a fault code - or codes - will be stored in the ecu memory and getting this read with a code reader or scanner will be very helpful.

Spark plugs? more info needed, what sort of issue?

No there is no EML illuminated. So for the time being shall I not worry about anything.

Sorry I meant to say spark plugs could be another issue causing the problems but I had new copper NGK ones fitted about 4 months ago, unless they were installed wrong?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

No there is no EML illuminated. So for the time being shall I not worry about anything.

Sorry I meant to say spark plugs could be another issue causing the problems but I had new copper NGK ones fitted about 4 months ago, unless they were installed wrong?

The fact there's no EML light is encouraging but doesn't rule out all possibilities.

Probably not the spark plugs but doesn't mean there might not be problems with the HT leads or the coils themselves.

Adam, can I ask how experienced you are with fault finding/car repairs in general? I fear we may be moving into "territory" you're going to find difficult.

Regarding finding a Fiat specialist. That would be the ideal situation, however this engine was used in a number of fiat models and also found in the Ford Ka and has been around for a long time in various version but all recognisably the same engine. For this reason it's very likely a competent general garage workshop would be able to sort it out. I just usually recommend that folk seek out someone who specializes in Fiats/Italian cars because they have a small number of little quirks which can catch out the unwary/less experienced.

 

[Adam1984]

The fact there's no EML light is encouraging but doesn't rule out all possibilities.

Probably not the spark plugs but doesn't mean there might not be problems with the HT leads or the coils themselves.

Adam, can I ask how experienced you are with fault finding/car repairs in general? I fear we may be moving into "territory" you're going to find difficult.

Regarding finding a Fiat specialist. That would be the ideal situation, however this engine was used in a number of fiat models and also found in the Ford Ka and has been around for a long time in various version but all recognisably the same engine. For this reason it's very likely a competent general garage workshop would be able to sort it out. I just usually recommend that folk seek out someone who specializes in Fiats/Italian cars because they have a small number of little quirks which can catch out the unwary/less experienced.

I am not that good with fault finding as I don't have a clue to be honest about cars and what I am looking for.

I do have fiat MultiEcuscan software but not sure what am looking for or what to test on there.

How would I know if the HT leads or coils are failing?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I am not that good with fault finding as I don't have a clue to be honest about cars and what I am looking for.

I do have fiat MultiEcuscan software but not sure what am looking for or what to test on there.

How would I know if the HT leads or coils are failing?

Before we go down the HT system "Rabbit hole" is this a car you're driving around in? if so is the missfire worse when you ask the engine to pull, as in climbing a hill or accelerating briskly? If the miss fire/poor running is only when idling it's unlikely to be an HT problem, it should show up worse under load. - Of course it may be something else.

Have the engine problems just come on suddenly or are they long term?

 

[Adam1984]

Before we go down the HT system "Rabbit hole" is this a car you're driving around in? if so is the missfire worse when you ask the engine to pull, as in climbing a hill or accelerating briskly? If the miss fire/poor running is only when idling it's unlikely to be an HT problem, it should show up worse under load. - Of course it may be something else.

Have the engine problems just come on suddenly or are they long term?

I think the engine problems have happened in the last 2 months or so. But then I have been told my version of my car doesn't have HT leads anyway just coils.

When I climb a hill the acceleration is just really poor and sluggish and is so slow going up a hill even in lower gears.

The weird one is when engine is idle there does seem to be a jolt after a few mins where the RPM just goes up on its own briefly like the engine wants to move.

 

[KPat]

The 1.2 Panda does have HT leads. The coils along with the HT leads operation can be tested using MES. Go into the Actuators section and run the test for each coil and lead as described in the yellow box. You need a spare spark plug to attach to each disconnected HT lead in turn. Ground the Spark plug on the engine block and Execute test.

If you don't understand how to do this or simple Auto repairs and servicing then you really would be better to get a Fiat specialist to run tests and diagnose the faults.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The 1.2 Panda does have HT leads. The coils along with the HT leads operation can be tested using MES. Go into the Actuators section and run the test for each coil and lead as described in the yellow box. You need a spare spark plug to attach to each disconnected HT lead in turn. Ground the Spark plug on the engine block and Execute test.

If you don't understand how to do this or simple Auto repairs and servicing then you really would be better to get a Fiat specialist to run tests and diagnose the faults.

Aye, but would that show up an intermittent misfire? I'd feel happier graphing coil output while the engine was running but I don't think MES allows that?

 

[KPat]

Aye, but would that show up an intermittent misfire? I'd feel happier graphing coil output while the engine was running but I don't think MES allows that?

Exactly Jock, and all the more reason to get the car properly diagnosed instead of trying to guess what is wrong from vague descriptions of symptoms and throwing parts at it. This could go on for a long time

 

[Adam1984]

Exactly Jock, and all the more reason to get the car properly diagnosed instead of trying to guess what is wrong from vague descriptions of symptoms and throwing parts at it. This could go on for a long time

Am trying to find a fiat specialist near me, but to no avail.

 

[jrkitching]

How would I know if my cambelt is missing a tooth or not

Unless the cambelt has recently been changed, this is a red herring. Having one jump a tooth whilst in service is practically unheard of. Generally they run perfectly, until they don't, and then they fail outright (which is very unusual on a 1.2 FIRE)

What you're reading about are cambelt issues due to a replacement belt being fitted in an incorrect position, which is common. But unless you've had it replaced recently, this isn't your problem.

 

[Adam1984]

Unless the cambelt has recently been changed, this is a red herring. Having one jump a tooth whilst in service is practically unheard of. Generally they run perfectly, until they don't, and then they fail outright (which is very unusual on a 1.2 FIRE)

What you're reading about are cambelt issues due to a replacement belt being fitted in an incorrect position, which is common. But unless you've had it replaced recently, this isn't your problem.

I had it replaced in April, I wasn't happy with the garage as it made my car sound like an angry go kart, took the garage 3 weeks to get the car back. They admitted it was done wrong so fixed it. That was the last I thought about it till now