General Bravo JTD tyre choice.

[Hellcat]

On a 15" wheel with 7J rim. 195/50R15

The contenders...

Toyo Proxes T1-R

Bridgestone Potenza RE720

Eagle F1 GS-D3

Your opinions, experiences please?

 

[id12586]

Having tried already the Toyo and the Bridgestones F1 i've reached some conclusions:

Bridgestone: Need time to warm up. Excellent at dry road, pretty good at wet, pretty funny at snow

Toyo : Need less time to warm. Not satisfying at Corners (when dry) even at normal speed (@ 80mph ). Excellent at Wet terrain. Their grip is better when wet, rather than dry . Same level with F1 at snow.

Notes: Had the F1 for 30.000km with 195/50/15 and still having the Toyos (45.000) with 195/45/15.

I was very disappointed with Toyos, because since i've put them, i've became more careful, especially with the corners, as i had to reduce my speed to some "daily use corners" for more than 10 mph

Next month, i'll go for the F1 once again!

 

[The Negotiator]

2005 Auto Express Tyre test winner was Vredstein (standard on Volvos as far as I know) if you're interested. Not seen the 2006 test however. No fancy looking tread patterns that look nice and do little, however.

 

[id12586]

I totally agree about Vredstein, though they tend to be extremely expensive

 

[jug]

i'd buy a cheaper variety with a similar tread pattern. they last longer than the mose expensive ones and grip just as well. tyres are very important to me and i've tried loads of different kinds, i'll never buy an expensive one ever again, they arent worth the extra money.

Nankang NS1 - i've used these and was very impressed with grip and wear rates

Nankang NS2 - i've used these as well, just as good as NS1, but a bit better looking. i'm currently using these on the rear of my bravo.

kumho ecsta spt are what i'm using on the front of my bravo, they're better in the wet than anything i've ever tried. and they look good. i doubt i'll ever find a better budget tyre

the federal supersteel 595 is agreat tyre. i used them on my escort and they looked mint, gripped superb in the dry, but they dont match the kumhos for the wet. they're probably my second choice out of them all.

finally my last favorite, the accelera, little heard of and rarely seen, its a bargain tyre that's a great all rounder and looks nice, plus they're really cheap. (pic is of a part worn one, couldnt find a new pic )

as will almost all budget tyres, they're made by the big companies to the same standards as the more expensive varieties, but a different name = different price. the quality and performance is just as good.

 

[The Negotiator]

Not true - look at tyre tests as to why the budget brands are budget brands, despite being part of the same company. For the record, Verdstein won the test (which had about 8 factors out of memory, from wet, dry, wear, price, etc etc.) and their budget brand came second out of memory, Maloya or similar, pretty rare though. To me however that's quite an achievement.

Again, for the record, pretty tread patterns mean very little if practical tests are to be believed.

 

[jug]

surely anyone who believes reviews wouldnt own a fiat?

if you do your own tests you'll quickly see there is little or no difference between the grip offered between the vast majority of directional tyres, price and looks are all you can really use to distinguish between them, and possibly wear rates to a lesser extent.

do you agree that an Armani top uses the same quality cotton as a George top. Armani costs a lot more, and gets better reviews, but its only better in the eyes of the converted, if you wore both with no labels you'd stuggle to tell the difference.

if paying more makes you feel better, and you like to believe reviews, then go for it. i've paid my money and learnt my lessons and i wont make the same mistakes again.

i know from first hand experience that my kumhos grip noticably better in the wet and dry than the hankook ventus sports that were on before (costing twice as much). according to most reviews the hankooks are excellent, yet the kumhos arent even mentioned.

 

[The Negotiator]

I think you will find that designer clothes in general will use a higher quality material than a George top. However, that isn't the point, types are a completely separate and incomparable subject. If you now compare it to the idea of a car and paying more for a completely different car, you receive more in return for your money in terms of quality, in general.

Sorry but your tests are subjective and therefore they mean absolutely nothing to me. In order for it to be a believable test rather than “I had a set of tyres for 2 years then changed them and the new ones were much better” you need exactly the same environment, same wear, same situation, same conditions, same car (with the same wear, same suspension/suspension wear) and same road surface. In addition to this you also need a quantitative way of measuring results, not “well it feels grippier” and “maybe it wears less”.

That’s what auto express offers, a complete set of tests which are completely repeatable with the same exact conditions as many times as you want, with repeated tests with quantifiable results.

It is completely and utterly impossible to look at a tyre and decide whether it is good or not, the tests show that pretty looking . I am not talking about “reviews” per se which offer a subjective element but actual tests, by physical experiments where possible. Your example is “well this tyre feels better and costs half as much” – fine, I can believe it, but that is not evidence of anything except that that tyre on your car is better than that other specific tyre.


And to your comment on Fiats? The reviews are subjective and not quantitative so of course there is going to be errors, bias and misunderstanding from the reviewer, items which can not enter into genuine tests rather than reviews. To close therefore, if you are happy in buying cheap and substandard tyres (as backed up by quantifiable results on items such as wet grip, dry grip, braking, wear rate etc.) then that’s your choice, but there is a better way.

 

[jug]

you need exactly the same environment, same wear, same situation, same conditions, same car (with the same wear, same suspension/suspension wear) and same road surface. In addition to this you also need a quantitative way of measuring results

i agree completely. do such tests exist?

 

[The Negotiator]

To the best point possible, yes, the 2005 auto express tyre test was such tests. You have to ignore things like tyretest.com or whatever it is that mytyres links to, these are filled in by the average public as far as I know and are therefore entirely subjective. I don't know if they did a 2006 version but the 2005 is on a PDF at home. Might still be on their website too. As much of it as possible was measured results, to which they gave a point scoring to.

 

[jug]

thanks for the tip, i'll have a look.

EDIT, here's the results:
1 Vredestein sport trac
2 Goodyear Hydragrip
3 Barum Bravuris
4 Uniroyal Rallye 550
5 Continetal Premium contact
6 Kumho Ecsta KH11
7 Fulda Carat Attiro
8 Dunlop SP Sport 01
9 Michelin Pilot Primacy
10 Avon ZV3
11 Firestone Firehawk TZ200
12 Yokohoma C.Drive
13 CEAT Tornado
14 Bridgestone Turanza ER30
15 Toyo RoadPro 610

and would you believe it, there's my favorite at number 6!! i knew they were good, this proves it.
i wonder if they're also the cheapest?

 

[JoskeJTD]

Can i just add. George clothing does use the same material as top brand labels like previously mentioned, its a fact. I used to work at ASDA.

I have tried the Nankang NS1 and Nankang NS2 they are both very hard wearing and in my opinion very noisey tyres. Grip in dry is really good but in the wet i would like something better.

I've moved over to Toyo T1-R's they are much better than the Toyo T1-S aswell as having excelelnt ratings and reviews. I'm suprised at the noise levels with these tyres, they are very quiet compared to what im used too. They grip extremely well under wet and dry braking. Just as good in the wet as in the dry. Never had problems with cornering at speed, very good tyre in my opinion. I suggest you make sure you keep the tyre pressures at a normal PSI otherwise you'll see in any tyre a different performance altogether which maybe not to your liking. Bad points about the Toyo T1-R, well none yet. I've heard they are more a soft tyre due to the lower road noise etc and better grip. So i can only think that they may wear quicker than a cheaper budget tyre.

TOYO T1-R

 

[jug]

I have tried the Nankang NS1 and Nankang NS2 they are both very hard wearing and in my opinion very noisey tyres. Grip in dry is really good but in the wet i would like something better.

i thought exactly the same (which is why they're only used on the back of my car)

 

[The Negotiator]

Can i just add. George clothing does use the same material as top brand labels like previously mentioned, its a fact. I used to work at ASDA.

I have George clothes and I have expensive clothes, and I know which are better quality.

 

[Hellcat]

Car will have toyo T1-R on rear and Nangkang NS2 on the front until they wear out, then to be replaced with more Toyos.

When you say cheap - difference between the cheapest tyres and eagle F1's is only about £10.. We're talking £30ish here. Not scrimping on £10 here. Tyres are the only things that keep you on the road.

 

[jug]

I have George clothes and I have expensive clothes, and I know which are better quality.

everyone else knows you're wrong

can we all agree diesel use the worst cotton? they only last a dozen washes then its time to throw them out. what a rip off.

and while we're on the subject, isnt it funny how italian garments are so much smaller than other european ones. i'm a medium in most places, but anything italian and i'm XL. those italians must be tiny.

 

[Hellcat]

Well the Toyos are here! 4 days to order, and deliver from Germany! Gosh that's quick!

Will get them fitted up soon, only question is do I get the alloys refurbed or get them on asap?

 

[The Negotiator]

I have found a copy of my 2005 tyre test but it's a 10 mb PDF.

 

[dave]

dont get any that rely on center beads, stones get stuck in them then your buggered in the wet

 

[The Negotiator]

i know from first hand experience that my kumhos grip noticably better in the wet and dry than the hankook ventus sports that were on before (costing twice as much). according to most reviews the hankooks are excellent, yet the kumhos arent even mentioned.

The Hankook tyres came 19 out of 19 in the Auto Express tyre test, they are FAR from excellent according to this test, which maybe supports it being a reliable test "from your point of view". Kumho was the 20th tyre but it couldn't be tested as Kumho messed around by supplying different tyres to the ones that are available for sale.

In order...

1. Vredestein, 100%
2. Maloya (Vredestein budget brand) 99.41%
3. Continental 99.01
4. Fulda 98.91
5. Uniroyal (Continental sister/budget brand) 98.81

The top 5 took buy it awards.

Then in order without percentages to save me time...

Bridgestone
Toyo
Nokian
Dunlop
Goodyear
Barum (Continental budget brand)
Pirelli
Firestone (sister company of bridgestone)
Yokohama
BF Goodrich
Michelin
Marangoni
Ceat
Hankook.

Untested: Kumho.

10 trials were used, some based on "how far can it be pushed before giving" others on accelerometers, braking distances etc.

Wet braking
Straight aquaplaning
Wet cornering
Curved aquaplaning
Wet Handling
Dry braking
Dry handling
Rolling resistance
In car noise
Price

Hopefully this will be of some use to somebody, i know it was to me when I had to make my tyre choice. I now have Vredestein on the rear...