Technical Brake shoes

[Mobi11]

Hi all,


Quick one about rear brakes.


Lost a retaining pin (I think that’s what it’s called, anyway. Photo below).

Thinking, I may as well change the shoes while I’m at it.

Do new shoes usually come with the pins, or do I need a full kit?

Many thanks

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Separate parts/items normally.
Shoes and pins/springs ("fittings"), were not sold together in the past (that was the "tradition").
Now there are "kits/sets" on eBay if you need. You should check it before starting new thread here (forum is not a Google/eBay).
Type "grande punto brake shoes" into eBay! There are 3 options:
- brake shoes only,
- fittings only,
- set/kit, shoes + fittings.

And more (sets with cylinders / drums).

By the way, there is a Guide (just in case): https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/rear-drum-strip-and-clean.235078/
And the recent thread about failed MOT (partially due to rear brakes): https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/failed-mot.521587/

 

[Mike1alike]

Yes, separate parts. And cheap, really.

 

[puntodad19]

nice picture of what's inside the brake drum.

any easy way to un adjust the spreader bar seen ju7st above the 12 o clock wheel bolt hole please ??

 

[jackwhoo]

nice picture of what's inside the brake drum.

any easy way to un adjust the spreader bar seen ju7st above the 12 o clock wheel bolt hole please ??

To move shoes closer to drum or further away?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

There is a link above (drum strip & clean Guide). Read it (Discussion).
And don't mess with the self-adjusters. Easy to damage (there will be an uneven braking L/R).

Remove ("dismantle" the system, shoes, springs etc.) to wind it back.
Faulty/fatigued adjuster can skip like that. And by "fixing" it, bending back, you're altering this leaf-spring properties = uneven Right/Left.

 

[Zardo]

What do you do when installing new brake shoes, replace the adjusters with new ones, too? So you don't have to "rewind" them?

 

[jackwhoo]

What do you do when installing new brake shoes, replace the adjusters with new ones, too? So you don't have to "rewind" them?

Hi,
You can rewind them after they have been removed and cleaned . You do need to be gentle and think/understand how they work. Check working correctly before refitting. If not working due to someone damaging them or badly made. new good quality ones required.

Kind regards
Jack

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Installing new shoes/drums does not require messing with the spring and bimetal strip. You don't bend it etc., to wind-back adjuster.
Condition of the system, potential problems (adjuster misbehaving) will show up on the graph like that. Brakes are not "rocket science".

How many times do I have to mention, copy&paste this picture? Start collecting data from MOT (brakes and exhaust emissions), use it during diagnosis/repairs.

 

[jackwhoo]

Installing new shoes/drums does not require messing with the spring and bimetal strip. You don't bend it etc., to wind-back adjuster.
Condition of the system, potential problems (adjuster misbehaving) will show up on the graph like that. Brakes are not "rocket science".

How many times do I have to mention, copy&paste this picture? Start collecting data from MOT (brakes and exhaust emissions), use it during diagnosis/repairs.

I feel your pain of repeating yourself , I can only say at least you are not repeating yourself over and over on one thread . this time its a new thread with same problem as recent other thread.

 

[puntodad19]

The problem i am going to have very soon is removing the drum when the drum is quite worn, ie a large ridge due to the shoes centre missing portion of friction material, and any rust ridge that has developed on the drum periphory.

It was a real battle last time so this time its gunna be worse.

I suppose I could cut the cut off as its gunna be well worn out......

fiat e learn suggests removing the shoes/drum/wheel cylinder as one bit ??

will research possibility of new self adjusters......

 

[puntodad19]

crap system really, seen this "skipping" fault on other car manufacturers efforts....

the spring wedge ( vw ) and the "monkey pole " ( skoda, when they were skoda, not vw !! _) systems really worked well and easy to un adjust.

I suppose in dealer workshops, all spares are to hand.......

there was not that much wrong with old school manual adjustment system ( girling ) .

life goes on.

 

[Mike1alike]

there was not that much wrong with old school manual adjustment system

That's the best!

 

[jackwhoo]

The problem i am going to have very soon is removing the drum when the drum is quite worn, ie a large ridge due to the shoes centre missing portion of friction material, and any rust ridge that has developed on the drum periphory.

It was a real battle last time so this time its gunna be worse.

I suppose I could cut the cut off as its gunna be well worn out......

fiat e learn suggests removing the shoes/drum/wheel cylinder as one bit ??

will research possibility of new self adjusters......

I cant see how removing the drum and backplate assembly as one unit is going to help ?

 

[puntodad19]

Drum, shoes and cylinder. Back plate stays on...

Was mentioned on e learn...

 

[Mike1alike]

You can't take them off "as one bit".

 

[Zardo]

I remember the one and only brake job I did on my 1995 Bravo, the brake shoes didn't come off easily, it took me at least half an hour to wiggle the drum off. Because there was a deep ridge, of course.

Apparently there is a way to drill out the pins from behind so the whole assembly comes off with the drum - I never tried that one, though.



but this one is not a FIAT drum

 

[GrandePunto PL]

People create problems. Brake drums are, or can be as easy as front brakes, calipers.
To eliminate the "ridge/lip", just do the chamfer.
Yes, most automotive shops these days DON'T have a lathe. Not my problem. And this is a 100-th reason this industry is a joke.

"Problem" is, the chamfer must be custom made (how big/wide), after new shoes/drums make a "witness marks" (first 1-3 weeks of driving).

That's "too much hassle" for an average shop and the customers. Two-stage brake job (two appointments)? Main reason this is NOT a standard practice.

As for hub corrosion, there is an obvious(?) solution. Spray paint, light even coat of zinc (zinc-aluminium). Zero rust guaranteed. And way better than grease.

Some (most?) are even afraid to lubricate retaining bolts. OK. If you like to drill those out, go ahead, install everything dry...

But no more complaining/crying on the Internet. No more "How to remove stuck/rusted drums or discs" threads...OK?

 

[puntodad19]

The shoes have a central groove of no friction material.

This means a central bit of the drum does not wear, leaving a "ridge" of less diameter compared with the rest of the worn drum.

Since the shoes cannot be fully un adjusted, the drum is difficult to remove.

Will dig out the old shoes ( I am sure I kept them ) to post picture.

The drum periphery "rust ridge" is also problematic.

Workshops these days just fit new parts.