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Technical 500 turning circle

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Technical 500 turning circle

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MJG

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Just curious really

- any reason why on the FIAT web site the turning circle on a twin air 500 lounge is given as 10.68 meters and on a 1.2 lounge as 9.2 meters

Engine type seems a strange thing to affect such a thing....

and then 9.28 meters given for a 1.2 pop is even stranger.....or just a missing digit perhaps
 
Different engine sizes (physical sizes not internal capacity) affect the space available for the front wheels to move. The larger the engine, the bigger the turning circle.

I suspect the Pop measurement has simply been recorded more accurately when compared to the Lounge.
 
RobinPJ said:
Different engine sizes (physical sizes not internal capacity) affect the space available for the front wheels to move. The larger the engine, the bigger the turning circle.
Click to expand...

That wouldn't hold true if you take the following example...
MINI Cooper turning radius: 34.8 ft.
E46 330i turning radius: 34.4 ft.
MINI Cooper's wheel base is also about 1/3 shorter than the E46.

The London Taxi turns in 8m.
The Maxda MX5 turns in 30.8ft = 9.39m

http://www.carbibles.com/steering_bible.html
The steering radius is limited on a front drive car by the axle shafts. C/V joint can only stress so far.
RobW said:
gearbox affects wheel clearance

1.4 is a considerably large turning circle, forget doing a 180 on a mini roundabout without the turning switch (handbrake) :devil:
Click to expand...

The fiat site lists the turning circle for the TA & the 1.4 as the same at 10.68m. Some list the 1.4 at 10.8m. It has been stated that the 6 speed has 'caused' this increase but I'm not too sure. Dualogic on the 1.4 is only a 5 speed. If you look at the US figures for their multi-air 1.4 it is 9.32m (30.6ft) and it comes with either a 5 speed or 6 speed automatic.

MJG said:
Just curious really
- any reason why on the FIAT web site the turning circle on a twin air 500 lounge is given as 10.68 meters and on a 1.2 lounge as 9.2 meters

Engine type seems a strange thing to affect such a thing...
Click to expand...

This turning circle came up before (Click here) but IMHO the 1.2 turning circle is excellent whilst the Twin Air is 'competitive'.

Rear wheel drive cars seem to have a better turning circle. Initially I thought it was to do with the engine being mounted transversely but it's unlikely. On FWD cars (& AWD) you have half-shafts going to the front wheels using CV joints. I reckon Fiat have limited the angle to improve reliability of the shafts / CVs on the 500 & restricted the turning circle on the TA & the 1.4 which are the 'warm hatch models'. If you give a FWD car full lock and then put the power down on a consistent basis you end up with premature 'knocking CV joints'.

MJG said:
Ok cheers guys - makes sense..
Click to expand...

The Chrysler (Lancia) Ypilson and the new Panda with the Twin Air engine they have turning circles of 9.44m and the new Fiat Panda at 9.3m so I'm don't know where that puts the theory.:confused: :)
 
I think fiat made the 1.4's turning circle very wide to improve its sporty experience. Not so nice on three point turns, but better on the fast flowing bends!
 
loveshandbags said:

The steering radius is limited on a front drive car by the axle shafts. C/V joint can only stress so far.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of truth in that statement (just watching the gaiters when you raise a front wheel and spin it slowly on full lock to check its condition is scary:eek:), and in terms of reliability, the driveshaft might well be the weakest link in the powertrain (they certainly were on my old R5).

However, I can't help wondering what kind of driver is ever going to:

loveshandbags said:

...give a FWD car full lock and then put the power down on a consistent basis ...
Click to expand...

Just how fast can you go round a 10m circle :confused:.

I can't imagine ever using full lock other than when manoeuvring in a confined space, and even then I'd stop short of winding the wheel to the stops unless I had absolutely no other choice. Turning the wheel to the limit in a car fitted with PAS puts extra stress on the steering mechanism.
 
Last edited:
RobinPJ said:
Different engine sizes (physical sizes not internal capacity) affect the space available for the front wheels to move. The larger the engine, the bigger the turning circle.
Click to expand...

Obviously a major factor but in this case the TA is a smaller engine, both internally and externally

RobW said:
gearbox affects wheel clearance

1.4 is a considerably large turning circle, forget doing a 180 on a mini roundabout without the turning switch (handbrake) :devil:
Click to expand...

As stated, the six speed gearbox is the culprit here.


MJG said:
Just curious really

- any reason why on the FIAT web site the turning circle on a twin air 500 lounge is given as 10.68 meters and on a 1.2 lounge as 9.2 meters

Engine type seems a strange thing to affect such a thing....

and then 9.28 meters given for a 1.2 pop is even stranger.....or just a missing digit perhaps
Click to expand...

I was very pleased with the turning circle on the 500 1.3MJT and the TA, didn't notice any difference between them to be honest so I think that these figures are wrong

However, the A500 has an abysmal turning circle and although it has the same 1.4 engine dimensions it also has a five speed box. :confused:
 
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RobinPJ said:
The "speed" with which a car steers has nothing to do with its turning circle.
Click to expand...


What i meant is, giving an example from f1, in monaco you have crazy tight steering lock to get around the chicane, but on other circuits you have much less steering lock.
 
ahmett said:
Yeah no joke! What i was trying to say is that relatively speaking, the turning circle of an f1 car is much higher on high speed circuits than when the formula 1 car is set up for racing in monaco.
Click to expand...

Turning circle of an F1 car is much higher on twisty circuits. Checking the top speed on the Monaco circuit they reach 160mph in the tunnel. Since the reference below refers to the Barcelona circuit having a more poorer / typical F1 turning circle it was be set up for even higher speeds.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8830
Wheel base, Wheel track, Steering angle

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2009/5/9363.html
Steering angle
The famous hairpin at the Grand Hotel is the tightest of the year - along with the sharp turn at Rascasse. Monaco therefore demands the highest steering angle of the season, some two times greater than anything required at the previous race in Barcelona. Dedicated Monaco front suspension is produced to ensure the necessary steering lock can be applied.

Turning circle for a turning circle (curb to curb) McClaren F1 is stated as 13 m (42.7 ft), allowing the driver 2.8 turns from lock to lock (wiki) which looks a lot shorter than JR's Vetttal Red Bull home run.

Hotel Fairmont Monte Carlo Formula 1 Grand Prix Hairpin Bend View


F1 2011 Ferando Alonso Monaco (he crashed in 2010 on the same circuit)
Hairpin is at 30sec and the Tunnel is entered at 44sec

:Offtopic:
Looking at Ferando's career to-date it appeared to peak before getting married in 2006 with his divorce been finalised in Dec 2011. He moved back to Northern Spain in the winter of 2010-11 from Switzerland to be closer to friends & family resulting in a tax bill for £50 million (wiki).:eek:
Does that explain his involvement in promoting the Twin Air ?:idea:
 
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Lots of lovely stuff in that post - thanks for sharing
thumb.gif
.

loveshandbags said:
Turning circle for a turning circle (curb to curb) McClaren F1 is stated as 13 m (42.7 ft), allowing the driver 2.8 turns from lock to lock (wiki) which looks a lot shorter than JR's Vetttal Red Bull home run.
Click to expand...

If you're referring to this car:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1[/ame]

remember it's a fully road-legal car, so has to be able to negotiate 'normal' roads - an out & out racecar will likely have a much larger turning circle and as posted, will in some cases be set up individually to meet the requirements of a specific circuit.

Does anyone here have a view on what they'd consider the maximum turning circle that's acceptable on a car in everyday use?
 
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It all depends on where you drive (narrow roads or main roads). For me the turning circle of the 1.4 500 is easily small enough. I never need to use full lock unless turning round in a road, but how often do you really need to do that?

Is there much out there with a smaller turning circle than the 500's other than Toyota IQ and Smart car?
 
mjsmke said:
... For me the turning circle of the 1.4 500 is easily small enough. I never need to use full lock unless turning round in a road, but how often do you really need to do that?
Click to expand...

Me, every time I get out of my regular parking spot. YMMV, obviously.

Is there much out there with a smaller turning circle than the 500's ...
Click to expand...

It depends. The 1.2 500’s turning circle is 1.5m less than that of the 1.4. Of course, even in my case that wouldn’t be an unsurmountable obstacle.
 
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