General 500 prices

[MonkeyBadger]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster!

I'm in the market for a classic 500, and have been watching the cars that sell and dont sell on ebay. There seems to be a wide variation in prices though and I'm interested in "what you get" for the money.

For example, there are quite a few 500s usually late 60's/early 70's F's and L's which are around the £7K to £8K price range. (my price range!!). A lot seem to be from sellers who have just imported them and they usually say "restored in Italy". They look very good! But, then there are also those which are for sale for considerably more - £12K to £16K. These look equally good in the pictures, so what is the difference? I understand there is a higher price demanded for rarer older cars.

Should the recently imported "restored in Italy" cars flag some warnings, i.e. dodgy paint which wont last a UK winter?

For background, my first car was a 71 VW beetle, so I've learnt the perils of rusty metal over the years and so I really want a solid car which wont need any repairs to body work, apart from general maintenance. Mechanics I can do absolutely fine, so not worried if the suspension is a bit tired or engine needs a tune up, I can tackle that!

So in conclusion, I'm just worried if I spend £8K on a nice looking 500, is that too cheap and I'm just going to get a lemon which still needs £5K of work!!?
Thanks.

 

[fiat500]

If I was in your position I would try to find a car that had been restored in a very public way, eg. documented via a forum such as this one or on YouTube.

The other way would be to buy one through a reputable UK dealer who specialises in Fiats; preferably one where you can visit them and look around their work in progress. I can think of at least three such businesses off the top of my head.

I have no axe to grind regarding the quality of Italian restorations, having never examined one., but a car restored specifically to sell at under £7,000 to make a profit from that sale does not seem likely to have been done particularly well.

I guess that your chances of finding a really solid car requiring no body repairs and safe to stay that way for a number of years are really low.

As you clearly have a very demanding specification for your ideal car, do not believe anything that is said regarding the poor fit of panels being "the way they were from the factory"; a good car will have very good panel alignment.

Even if you are drawn towards special versions such as the Abarth I would look for an honest, basic model such as the "F". You can always put on your own modifications but someone else may have removed some of the charm in handling and appearance and may be hard to reverse engineer.

You might be better buying a tatty but honest car that drives well and needs little mechanical work; I guarantee that those treats will come to you soon enough and in the meantime you also get to know the pleasures of the Fiat 500 sooner rather than later; a twelve month renovation or restoration can easily stretch for several years (don't I know it?!!!).

Whatever you do, make sure it's a blue one and you won't go far wrong.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

the big question is other than a "Price"

what are you looking for n a 500?

It s pretty similar to the VW world...
there are those that are "deemed" not desirable by some...
those deemed "Highly desirable".....

The car most people think of in terms of the typical Fiat 500 is the 500 F...
the features being the badge and round speedo.... hence the styling of the re-panelled Ford Ka...
RHD is a slight premium....

a UK car will have been through the ravages of UK salt winters....
but as most people say there is little difficulty in driving a LHD...

Personally would steer clear of a car restored abroad... after all what are you going to do when the filler drops out? you can't exactly go back.......

save lots of pictures off Ebay etc.. and zoom in on the panels to examine the panel fit...most repo panels do not fit....

 

[Toshi 975]

Best thing is to be patient if you can and I always say to people that if you get your monies worth with a second hand car then you are doing well. Sometimes it is worth joining a specialist car club as genuine cars come up for sale from time to time when you can get to get info direct from the owner. Because of the value of the cars now in the UK there are dealers scouring the corners of Italy looking for cars they can export and make big bucks on. There are genuine rust free cars in Italy and some people have gone over there just to check them out and import them themselves. A lot of the shiny imports that pop up for sale have obvious signs of being put together with whatever parts were available with wrong front panels, steering wheels, seats, wheels or whatever. A cynical view maybe but a tin of filler and a splash of paint can hide a lot.

 

[the hobbler]

Some very wise comments---I would be very wary about buying a "fully restored in Italy" car--not because the Italians are poor workmen, quite the opposite (I have seen some stunning cars at an Italian 'Raduno'), but because it seems that (wisely) the Italians keep the best for themselves. There is a saying the the warranty on some of these 'fullyrestored' cars "stops at the front gate"--i.e. there isn't any! Some of the workmanship I have seen on these imported cars is, to put it quite bluntly, abmismal! (and on 1 or 2 occasions, downright dangerous)
2 possible sources of good cars (not always 'pristine', but sound) is (a) Proietti in London--Stef Proietti is reliable and very knowledegable and, (b) one of the 500 clubs. The "Fiat 500 enthusiasts club" bi-monthly magazine nearly always has a couple of good cars for sale. Joining the club not only gets you a bi-monthly magazine, but a fund of sound, gained-through-experience technical assistance.

 

[Bubins]

I would second the suggestion of Proietti. They have a number of scruffy looking cars out the front of their premises and I believe they do them up as and when people want to buy them and as such can tailer to budget and preferred specification.

If you go the online route then I recommend physically viewing as many cars as possible. Most of them will look lovely on the outside but the main horrors are lurking within (in my case underneath). I bought one that had been hastily “restored” in Italy and shipped over for sale in the UK. I am the second UK owner. It had a thick layer of underseal on the bottom of the car which was hiding a lot of rust that was costly to repair.

Cars that have been in the UK for a longer period of time and have receipts of any work done might be a safer bet. I’d be cautious of one where the owner has done large scale repairs/restoration themselves as there is rarely a guarantee of the quality of the workmanship.

I rushed into it and could have saved myself money and stress by taking the time to compare different cars on the market.

 

[Bubins]

Also, the Fiat 500 Enthusiasts Club membership is a good suggestion and it entitles you to a discount on insurance from most suppliers that for me offsets the membership fee.

 

[the hobbler]

Where about in the UK are you 'Bubin'? I am also a member of the "500 enthusiasts club"--you will have read some of my articles and I am one of the "technical team"
Tom (aka "Topo Peloso")

 

[Fiona500f]

I second Bubins comments on the Enthusiasts Club membership will also get you 10%discount on all orders from Ricambio International in Surrey.

 

[Bubins]

Where about in the UK are you 'Bubin'? I am also a member of the "500 enthusiasts club"--you will have read some of my articles and I am one of the "technical team"
Tom (aka "Topo Peloso")

Ah yes, I’ve seen you in the magazines before. I am in south east London.

 

[MonkeyBadger]

Thanks all for very useful replies. Really helpful.

It sounds like most of you are thinking along the same lines that "restored in Italy" and being sold at a relatively cheap price by a dealer, just doesn't sound great in my book. It just feels like it would have a lot of cheap repairs and possibly bodges to get a quick sale and the most return. I agree that history of what's been done and to what standard are important. Good advice.

I realise any historic car isn't going to be perfect, especially as it looks like old Fiats are like old VW's and rust before your eyes, but I would like to get something that is as solid as can be. The odd bit of rust here or there isn't a problem, but I dont what to be replacing floor pans if I can!! I was never very good at welding!!!

I'm in no hurry which is good, so need to go and see a few to get a feel for what you get. Obviously a round dash would be a nice to have, but understand these may be more expensive. I dont mind the square dash at all, and looking for originality in the car rather than a car that's been chopped and changed.

I think I'll look into the enthusiats club. Sounds like a good idea.

Thanks all.

 

[fiat500]

I'm glad this helpful thread didn't exist when I bought my car; Murf wouldn't have got a look-in.

 

[Toshi 975]

I'm glad this helpful thread didn't exist when I bought my car; Murf wouldn't have got a look-in.

Neither would have mine
When I got it it came with two full pages of advisories all of which in my opinion should have been a fail. It broke down about 10 times on the 80 mile journey home. The car had about 100,000 miles on the clock and had spent 28 years in Rome so every panel on the body shell was dented including the roof. Not too rusty but chunks of filler falling off of it. The car was owned by an art dealer who had a gallery in the Portobello road. His mother had the MOT done at their local village garage in deepest Sussex and I think she must have had a special “relationship” with the mechanic.
Lots of receipts came with the car, many from Proietti including one for fitting a 2nd hand tyre to pass the MOT and several for towing in a broken down car. Whilst trying to establish what work had been done on the engine by Proietti I tried to describe the car to them And I struggled until I mentioned the front seat covers which were literally just brown parcel tape. Suddenly it clicked with the guy and he said, “Oh that one!” , “that guy only ever wanted to spend the absolute minimum”
But hey it’s a Fiat 500 so I have had the usual love/hate relationship that you come to expect and over 10 years on my daughter still talks about me picking her up from the station as a surprise the day I got it

 

[Bigvtwin996]

................................................... I’d be cautious of one where the owner has done large scale repairs/restoration themselves as there is rarely a guarantee of the quality of the workmanship....................................

I would not say that is the norm.. if the seller seems to be a part time "dealer" turning over cars... then yes they would be no different to cars restored elsewhere and sent to the UK...
but you only have to look at some of the detailed restorations on here...
There are many skilled people for whom restoration is a hobby... and they can spend considerably more time than any dealer....
I dare say if people costed their time at 1/2 a professional shop would change then the cost would still be considerably more....

 

[Fayray]

look for one where the owner has moved past the novelty and romance of owning one and been worn down by the constant problems. Some of these will have had a fortune spent on the body and paint (appearance being the most important aspect for many when it comes to 500s) but often the oily bits may have had less love. Some owners never get past the non-syncro gear change and stick them in the garage to gather dust.
They are certainly out there and some will have been restored (body wise) properly. Obviously for you the right car is the best body you can find.

 

[Bubins]

I would not say that is the norm.. if the seller seems to be a part time "dealer" turning over cars... then yes they would be no different to cars restored elsewhere and sent to the UK...
but you only have to look at some of the detailed restorations on here...
There are many skilled people for whom restoration is a hobby... and they can spend considerably more time than any dealer....
I dare say if people costed their time at 1/2 a professional shop would change then the cost would still be considerably more....

I do agree in terms of the people on this forum but I doubt any of these well-documented restorations will ever be out up for sale. Speaking from personal experience the 500s I saw for sale online where owners had done restoration themselves had little to no documentation of the work done which made me cautious. No guarantee a professional will have done a better job but at least reviews of their work may be online.

I suppose this suggests a sensible approach to buying a 500 is to establish the seller’s reason for sale. You’d surely have to be mad to want to get rid!!