Ducato 1994 KNAUS 520 MOTORHOME on FIAT DUCATO CAB & CHASSIS

[Peter Riddall]

Hi, pleased to meet you all,
I'm afraid I have a very sad tale to tell which is why I hope someone out there may be able to help and save me from going completely mad!
Basically I was ripped off buying the above motor home from someone in England I then had to drive it down to Spain (the idea was to renovate it over the winter months) I have retired to the sun by the way. I got about 200 miles into the journey and the clutch went in France it turned out it could not be fixed so I had to have it transported by low loader down here to Alicante at considerable cost, that was last October.My garage have been unable to fix because the reason why the clutch went was because the gearbox was not the right one for the engine.In fact the engine does not match the details on the log book, so all in all I'm f....d I really need help from someone who knows this vehicle ie. Ducato 1994 cab and chassis Knaus 520 the original engine I believe was either a 1.9D Fiat230A2000 or 1.9TD Fiat230A3000 or possibly a 1.9TD cat Fiat230A4000 the gearbox is with linkage to a column change thanks for listening.

 

[corcai]

Hi, pleased to meet you all,
I'm afraid I have a very sad tale to tell which is why I hope someone out there may be able to help and save me from going completely mad!
Basically I was ripped off buying the above motor home from someone in England I then had to drive it down to Spain (the idea was to renovate it over the winter months) I have retired to the sun by the way. I got about 200 miles into the journey and the clutch went in France it turned out it could not be fixed so I had to have it transported by low loader down here to Alicante at considerable cost, that was last October.My garage have been unable to fix because the reason why the clutch went was because the gearbox was not the right one for the engine.In fact the engine does not match the details on the log book, so all in all I'm f....d I really need help from someone who knows this vehicle ie. Ducato 1994 cab and chassis Knaus 520 the original engine I believe was either a 1.9D Fiat230A2000 or 1.9TD Fiat230A3000 or possibly a 1.9TD cat Fiat230A4000 the gearbox is with linkage to a column change thanks for listening.

1.9 is underpowered with a weak gearbox. If its LHD I'd buy a donor van locally with 2.5td or 2.8td in it an swap the engine/gearbox over. Yours probably has 15" wheels and small brakes, if the donor van has 16" wheels you'd might need to swap driveshaft, hubs, hub carriers in which case I would drop the whole lot struts, subframe and all and transfer it that way would be a lot less labour. If the van is RHD and donor is LHD you might need to swap the linkage brackets on the gearbox.

 

[rallycinq]

Based on the fact your gearbox is mounted to the engine it should be entirely possible to replace the clutch.

It requires a mechanic not a fitter.

Probably need the driven plate and bearing to suit the gearbox and the cover to suit the engine.

Simples

David

 

[BGD]

So long as the gearbox fits onto the engine, I don't see why you cannot simply replace the clutch.
Take existing clutch to motor factors to identify exact type.

But your bigger problem is going to be that you can only have that British reg vehicle in Spain for a maximum of 6 months, and you have utterly no chance of getting a diesel commercial van based vehicle of that age onto Spanish matriculation.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Thanks all for your replies, I should have said in my original message I don't know what engine is in the van the bell housing has been adapted to fit the block with the result the clutch linkage does not work as it should, at some time in the past the engine or gearbox has been changed or maybe both. I have tried to find the engine number and the following are the best I can find

99434800
GAS 9VM+CU

VIN: ZFA29000000481599

As I said before according to what I can find the van is only 3100kgs so came with a 1929cc engine registered 18/5/1994 in Germany first registered in UK 18/4/2006.

Since it is quite a small motorhome I somehow don't think a 2.5 lump would fit from what I have seen and in any event it would need the gearbox with linkage to the column change, did any of the vehicles suggested as transplant donors have column gear changes?

If somebody could identify the engine I have that would help no end.

Thanks everybody.

 

[corcai]

The 290 was available from the factory with the 2.5td so no issues with it fitting. The 2.8td dievt injected is tge preferred conversion rsion though plenty of info over on talbotoc on engine transplants.

 

[Peter Riddall]

hi Corcai, thanks so much for your help so far may I impose once more, as I have decided to follow your advice and replace the complete engine and gearbox probably with a 2.5L TD PSA DJ5.

According to the information I have obtained my 1994 van came with one of the three engines I listed in a previous message although a 2.5 was available it was only fitted to the Citroen Jumper and Peugeot Boxer were these vans the same as my cab and chassis and sizewise the engine compartment

My question is, the 290 you refer to is presumably a model number if it is my model did they all come with column gear changes with the gearbox fitted direct to the engine or if the gear lever was on the dash would my column gear lever linkage still operate the gears?

I have the chance of a complete engine and gearbox for 1000 Euros from a Peugeot but obviously need to make sure it will fit.

 

[corcai]

Ducato was available with 2.5 NA and 2.5TD engines made by SOFIM. You don't want to buy an engine/gearbox you want a donor vehicle because you'll end up needing mounting, brackets, exhaust, driveshafts etc. I wouldn't pay €1000 euros for an old 2.5, if you're going to change then got for the 2.8idtd. Theres a blow for blow guide on the tablotoc - you need to donate to view it. https://talbotoc.com/dunnie-s-cd-for-2-8-engine-swap-t19736.html

 

[Peter Riddall]

Hi Guys, I'm still trying to sort this out my garage are at the moment taking out the engine so we can find the engine number and identify exactly what it is indeed if it is a fiat at all, I have put a photo on my members gallery so if its possible please have a look. Can someone tell me the format the engine number should take if its a Fiat Ducato, thanks.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Further to my previous email I have now got the engine number on my Ducato motorhome it is : 8140.67*2200-242558 which is a Iveco 2.5TD it is as I thought a replacement unit probably matched with the original gearbox which had been adapted to fit and the reason why it failed. I now need to find a complete gearbox to fit properly with the ability to work with the column change any help or suggestions would be wonderful, thanks.

Corcai, as you see I won't now need to change the engine since the engine I have, which ran well prior to the clutch breakage, was one you recommended anyway, if I can only find a gearbox that will connect with my column change, thanks again.

 

[corcai]

Afaik the.67 2200 was a normally aspirated engine has someone added a turbo

 

[jontee61]

if you go to Fiat Ducato in Wikipedia you will find a huge amount of information on your engine and it will give you clarification as to what engine you have and the possibilities of gearbox exchanges and swaps. hope this helps.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Corcai, you are absolutely right again the substitute engine 8140.67*2200-242558 is a 2.5D not TD as you thought someone has added a turbo. I am having no luck in finding a gearbox to match this unit so my only option is to replace the whole engine and gearbox so as you recommended I am going for the 2.8id.TD. As the original engine in the vehicle was a 2.5D I'm hoping the new unit will fit OK using the existing engine mountings etc.

 

[corcai]

Corcai, you are absolutely right again the substitute engine 8140.67*2200-242558 is a 2.5D not TD as you thought someone has added a turbo. I am having no luck in finding a gearbox to match this unit so my only option is to replace the whole engine and gearbox so as you recommended I am going for the 2.8id.TD. As the original engine in the vehicle was a 2.5D I'm hoping the new unit will fit OK using the existing engine mountings etc.

Not sure you need to change the engine, I would guess that the 2.5td / 2.8td gearbox, clutch and flywheel would bolt up to your 2.5 block

 

[corcai]

Bigger issue may be driveshafts, yours probably has the smaller driveshafts, brakes, hubs etc hence recommendation to get a donor vehicle. You can get driveshafts welded and balanced if it came to it though.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Earlier in this thread I did explain the original engine was a 2.5D 8144.67 and was subsequently changed to another 2.5D 8140.67 as far as I can tell they used the original gearbox which was adapted to fit and bolted up to the 2.5 block and that is how the problem happened because the internals somehow did not gel. Bearing this in mind would the 2.8id TD not drop straight into the Ducato utilizing the existing mountings, driveshaft, hubs etc.

 

[corcai]

Earlier in this thread I did explain the original engine was a 2.5D 8144.67 and was subsequently changed to another 2.5D 8140.67 as far as I can tell they used the original gearbox which was adapted to fit and bolted up to the 2.5 block and that is how the problem happened because the internals somehow did not gel. Bearing this in mind would the 2.8id TD not drop straight into the Ducato utilizing the existing mountings, driveshaft, hubs etc.

Possibly but the 1 and 1.4 ton payload chassis had smaller wheels, smaller hubs, smaller brakes, skinny driveshafts, etc and the normally aspirated engines used a smaller gearbox so there a high chance the driveshafts will be different dimensions. splines etc.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Hi Corcai,
OK you have put me off changing to a 2.8id.TD so I'll stay with the 2.5D with the added turbo which means I'm back looking for a gearbox for my engine number 8140.67*2200-242558. The gearbox I have which had been adapted to fit onto my engine has the number 20 JE 62 can you say what this gearbox was originally intended for and can you also tell me what gearbox number will I need to work properly with my engine. I am having all this work carried out by a local garage here in Spain they are stuck at the moment because the gearbox as above has some fault which they are unable to rectify. Cheers and thanks again.

 

[rolandbrindley]

I have a late 1993 Ducato TD10 LHD Boos caravan with the 1929cc Fiat diesel engine and 5-speed column change manual gearbox. The engine you have sounds the correct one for 1994 also. I doubt it has been modified by adapting some other engine if that's what you have, what makes you think it's non standard?

The clutch is a straightforward replacement, look in my guide 'how to remove and replace a fiat Ducato gearbox', all you have to add to that is unscrewing the clutch setbolts and changing the driven plate, or driven plate and pressure plate as necessary.

It's not true that this engine is under-powered, mine has been from Almeria to Scotland and back and I never felt short of power, how fast do you want to go? With a coachbuilt caravan you should be thinking of low average speeds and a 50-55mph maximum.

The gearbox is not a really tough one but with care in making changes and keeping the speed down in 5th gear it will last and last.

Do not listen to the prophets of doom trying to lure you into fitting a 2.5 engine and gearbox, bigger brakes, that's just bull**** loose talk, it's the route to a sick headache that you will never be satisfied with if indeed you ever finish such an engine change. You will go mad with things like engine mounts, speedo drive, exhaust pipe, clutch cable, nothing will fit right, it's an experts job and even they will balls it up.

Just repair it properly, here in Spain a replacement clutch can be had from www.oscaro.es and they are very competitive on prices and good on delivery, I get all my spares from them. Look at my guide, it's a piece of cake if you have a clean place to work and the basic jacks and stands and a few hand tools.

Good luck. If you are in Alicante I'm in Almeria, get in touch if you need further help.

 

[Peter Riddall]

Corcai,
I have located a complete donor van but before I go ahead can you confirm in your knowledge the engine, gearbox, mounting, brackets, exhaust, driveshafts etc will fit my Ducato 14

The donor van is a 2001 Peugeot 3.5 ton with a 2.5D, thanks.