General 1.3 diesel or 1.4 petrol ?!?

[aaron500]

Hi all !

I currently have a classic Fiat 500 and a 1984 Fiat panda!
I have owned a 2004 panda and loved it! Replaced with an Alfa 147 and I couldn't of regretted it more

So I am wanting to buy a new Fiat 500.
But I can't decide on a 1.3 diesel or a 1.4 petrol?!?
1.3 can be remapped to be as quick as a 1.4 petrol, but do I ?
Help me
Thanks

 

[ahmett]

Hi all !

I currently have a classic Fiat 500 and a 1984 Fiat panda!
I have owned a 2004 panda and loved it! Replaced with an Alfa 147 and I couldn't of regretted it more

So I am wanting to buy a new Fiat 500.
But I can't decide on a 1.3 diesel or a 1.4 petrol?!?
1.3 can be remapped to be as quick as a 1.4 petrol, but do I ?
Help me
Thanks

huge difference in fuel economy. if you buy a 1.3 make sure its after 2010 model as they improved them from 75hp to 95 hp.

and yes the 95 would be about as quick as the 100 hp, but not as fun.

 

[Officina red]

I don't think it is the right time to buy a diesel engined car at the moment because of the air pollution/emissions, which they seem to be blaming diesels for.

 

[jw4821]

According to the configurator the 1.4 isn't available anymore on new 500's. The options are the twinair in either 85 or 105HP, a 1.2 with 69HP or the 1.3 Multijet mentioned previously with 95HP.

So the higher powered twinair is the closest match.

 

[Officina red]

I thought we were talking second hand.

 

[aaron500]

Yes looking around a 2009 - 2011
Apparently twin air models can be tuned to 115hp !

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Apart from fuel economy, at which the multijet diesel wins hands down, there is in the UK the annual saving in road tax, which is considerable.
From a driving pleasure viewpoint, the instant grunt and wide torque spread of the diesel also help to make it an enthusiastic drivers chariot.
Not biased at all, me!

 

[The Twins]

Hi all !

I currently have a classic Fiat 500 and a 1984 Fiat panda!
I have owned a 2004 panda and loved it! Replaced with an Alfa 147 and I couldn't of regretted it more

So I am wanting to buy a new Fiat 500.
But I can't decide on a 1.3 diesel or a 1.4 petrol?!?
1.3 can be remapped to be as quick as a 1.4 petrol, but do I ?
Help me
Thanks

Twinair all the way...

 

[alexGS]

As a second-hand purchase, the 1.4 is likely to be the most reliable engine option.

The diesels have their share of DPF, injector, and turbo problems - any of which can lead to engine damage and a total rebuild. I keep seeing them in the workshop where I visit.

The Twinairs have that potential solenoid problem which, while only a few people have reported it, is still a potential problem that the 1.4 simply doesn't have.

Having driven both, I feel that the 1.4 goes better than the Multijet anyway, as the engine works over a wider speed range and sounds nicer.

Just my thoughts.
-Alex

 

[MarginWalker]

Worth mentioning that the 1.4 comes with a 6-speed box and disc brakes all round. Yes, it's an old school naturally aspirated power plant but it loves revs, is a blast to drive briskly in the powerband (when nicely warmed up!) and has a good reliability record. My 1.4 Sport is 7 years old now and has been superbly reliable and sailed through another MOT yesterday.

The multijet would be a good choice if you intend to do high mileages but a bad choice if the majority of your journeys will be short (increasing the potential for DPF issues).

 

[alexGS]

I don't think it is the right time to buy a diesel engined car at the moment because of the air pollution/emissions, which they seem to be blaming diesels for.

I thought you were joking - environmentalists love diesels, lower CO2, they say - but then I did a web search and found this!:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...-as-Britain-ordered-to-cut-air-pollution.html

In 2001, Mr Brown, the then chancellor, overhauled vehicle excise duty so that cars that emitted a higher level of carbon dioxide faced a higher level of vehicle excise duty.

The move prompted a profound shift towards diesel cars, which produce lower levels of carbon dioxide because they are about 20 per cent more efficient than petrol engines.

Over the past decade, the number of diesel cars on Britain’s roads has risen from 1.6 million to more than 11 million and accounts for a third of vehicles.

However Labour’s plan failed to take into account that diesel vehicles emit 10 times the fine particles and up to twice the nitrogen dioxide, which has been linked to 7,000 deaths each year.

-Alex

 

[Mick F]

I don't think it is the right time to buy a diesel engined car at the moment because of the air pollution/emissions, which they seem to be blaming diesels for.

Spot on.

Mark my words.
The price of secondhand diesel cars will plummet despite the recent improvements in diesel technology. All diesel cars will be tarred with the same brush.

Mick.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Spot on.



Mark my words.

The price of secondhand diesel cars will plummet despite the recent improvements in diesel technology. All diesel cars will be tarred with the same brush.



Mick.

Not sure I agree with you on this, Mick.
A colleague runs a large used Landrover dealership in Staplehurst. When the fuel price rocketed, a few naysayers predicted that the value of his diesel-guzzling stock would plummet and sales would fall off a cliff. For a month or two his sales dipped, but since then he has enjoyed good business.
Plenty of people are riding the 'knock diesel' bandwagon right now because it's the 'correct' flavour of the month, but my view is that diesel economy will win through and diesel sales will continue to be healthy in the long term.
Anything that hits the pocket of us average blokes strongly influences our decision to buy. Put the pollution blame where it really belongs - on the giant fuel users like power stations, shipping and industry, and stop trying to swat gnats like tiny diesel cars!

 

[aaron500]

I still have no idea what to get

If I got a diesel I would have to get it remapped.
I have heard that they are just gutless and really are quite naff though.

But with a remap I thought this could cure that problem.
Diesel 500's also seem to be one of the cheapest to buy!
I know the petrol will have more power throughout more of the Rev range, but if I get a proper remap by Angel tuning, I would have a lot more torque!
Forgetting though the 0.9 twin air can be remapped to have the same horsepower as the remapped diesel!
So many choices !!

 

[Sweetsixteen]

You get real satisfaction from remapping a diesel. My Panda is done, and I've also blanked the egr, fitted an induction kit and scrapped the backbox, replacing it with a Polyzhaust polymer straight through unit.
It's now a little pocket rocket - in sheep's clothing.
I was so pleased with these results that I'm now giving my Merc diesel similar treatment.
I just love diesels.

 

[aaron500]

You get real satisfaction from remapping a diesel. My Panda is done, and I've also blanked the egr, fitted an induction kit and scrapped the backbox, replacing it with a Polyzhaust polymer straight through unit.
It's now a little pocket rocket - in sheep's clothing.
I was so pleased with these results that I'm now giving my Merc diesel similar treatment.
I just love diesels.

What kind of performance are you getting ?
Like 0-60?
Red line ?
Mpg as well ?
Also, who did the remap for you ?
Thanks

 

[griff74]

Not sure I agree with you on this, Mick.
A colleague runs a large used Landrover dealership in Staplehurst. When the fuel price rocketed, a few naysayers predicted that the value of his diesel-guzzling stock would plummet and sales would fall off a cliff. For a month or two his sales dipped, but since then he has enjoyed good business.
Plenty of people are riding the 'knock diesel' bandwagon right now because it's the 'correct' flavour of the month, but my view is that diesel economy will win through and diesel sales will continue to be healthy in the long term.
Anything that hits the pocket of us average blokes strongly influences our decision to buy. Put the pollution blame where it really belongs - on the giant fuel users like power stations, shipping and industry, and stop trying to swat gnats like tiny diesel cars!

I'm sorry but I agree with Mick on this, the tide is turning in Europe on diesel cars, last year was the first year since the late 90's that diesel car sales slipped (in percentage compared to petrols), many cities in Europe are putting plans into place to restrict or even ban them from city centers, it will happen here, they do pollute more than petrols, they have got complicated in their emission systems and already older ones are starting to become maintenance nightmares, I wouldn't be surprised if the government remove the road tax advantage on them sooner rather than later. When this happens used prices will plummet, especially for normal family cars. With the price difference of petrol over diesel, the increasing economy and performance of small petrol engines and the price difference when buying new with the added environmental and health issues of diesels, their days are numbered. Large SUV type vehicles will be ok for a while as it will be a while before they become economical with petrol engines, but even then, as the new hybrid petrol Volvo XC90 shows they are close to sorting that issue as well. Unless you do mega mileage (20+ k a year), diesel just isn't worth it. I got rid of my diesel car last year and haven't really noticed my fuel costs going up, plus I don't have to worry about the DPF etc anymore, don't have to deal with diesel pumps and the smell, don't have to deal with long warm up times in winter and enjoy the larger power bands and noise of both my small, turbocharged petrol cars.

 

[zanes]

I'm sorry but I agree with Mick on this, the tide is turning in Europe on diesel cars, last year was the first year since the late 90's that diesel car sales slipped (in percentage compared to petrols), many cities in Europe are putting plans into place to restrict or even ban them from city centers, it will happen here, they do pollute more than petrols, they have got complicated in their emission systems and already older ones are starting to become maintenance nightmares, I wouldn't be surprised if the government remove the road tax advantage on them sooner rather than later. When this happens used prices will plummet, especially for normal family cars. With the price difference of petrol over diesel, the increasing economy and performance of small petrol engines and the price difference when buying new with the added environmental and health issues of diesels, their days are numbered. Large SUV type vehicles will be ok for a while as it will be a while before they become economical with petrol engines, but even then, as the new hybrid petrol Volvo XC90 shows they are close to sorting that issue as well. Unless you do mega mileage (20+ k a year), diesel just isn't worth it. I got rid of my diesel car last year and haven't really noticed my fuel costs going up, plus I don't have to worry about the DPF etc anymore, don't have to deal with diesel pumps and the smell, don't have to deal with long warm up times in winter and enjoy the larger power bands and noise of both my small, turbocharged petrol cars.

Pretty much what I was going to write, although worth noting that a fair amount of people first got in to diesels when diesel was substantially cheaper than petrol- as Griff says this financial advantage is no longer there.

 

[griff74]

Exactly Zanes, when I bought my first diesel when I was a young lad of 19 in 96 (a brand new Corsa 1.5td, which bar the GSi was the quickest Corsa you could get at the time!), diesel was substantially cheaper than petrol and bar a cat, had none of the complicated, expensive, unreliable and performance and economy sapping emissions equipment modern ones have. I have had lots of diesel cars but I have already had the last one I will ever have. Our last 2 cars were both Mazda 3 Sports, both within 10 months of age, one petrol, one diesel, the diesel one had over twice the mileage on it than the petrol when we sold them, plus the petrol, due to it's lower miles was cosmetically in better condition. I got nearly twice as much for the diesel one, this situation won't continue, I feel I jumped ship at the right time!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The current EU stance on diesel cars has not gone down at all well with motor manufactures who are gearing up to seriously kick back at EU politicians who for years have pushed the benefits of diesel over petrol.

Paris is the first city to talk about banning diesel cars but the French government owns a big stake in Peugeot which most of peugeots sales come from diesel cars and Diesel engine technology.

Basically this attack on diesel in France is very much cutting off their own nose.

What I'm saying is don't count your chickens, at this stage their are some rumblings about diesel being bad but their is so much weight in the form of manufactures and share holders and oil companies who will back diesel to the bitter end so I can't see diesel cars going anywhere soon.

The 1.3 Diesel engine is a fantastic little engine which half a dozen other manufactures are buying and selling well in their own cars while fiat are selling the 500 as a little town run around better suited to the petrol engines, but if you expect to do more than 30 miles a day then the you can't really do better than the 1.3 diesel.

Plus that 1.3 diesel is very much under tuned so really opens up with a little tinkering to far more power and torque putting those petrol engines to shame