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Waterless Cooling / Coolant

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Waterless Cooling / Coolant

s130

s130

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This came up in the Barchetta forum and is better off here:

Please also see: https://www.fiatforum.com/tech-talk/354006-waterless-coolant.html. This dates back to 2014.

More recently ("B") Forum we have had:

KC3 - May i ask ? whats your thoughts with a water less liquid fluid for the radiator and cooling system?

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S130 - I don't have any experience of waterless fluid for the cooling. What I read a while ago is that it is not a straight forward drain and refill exercise to change.

I guess if everything is carefully done "to the book" then the documented benefits appear attractive.

This article may interest you: https://www.pwmag.com/fleets/waterle...nal-coolants_o

If I were doing a complete engine removal and cooling system strip down with new water pump etc. then I would certainly consider waterless cooling as the extra cost and time investment is offset by all the other work being done.

A factor/point I would say is the a traditional water cooling system (preferably with distilled/de-ionised water) with well maintain and quality anti-freeze (change every 2 or 5 years for type of fluid) does exactly what it is supposed to do, corrosion will be mininal and the engines will normaly fail at 100,000s of miles due to basic mechanical wear as opposed to corrosion or overheating damage.

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NSMG - Thank you both for your extensive replies.

I have Evans waterless fluid in my car and no problems so far up to now.
It has been 6 months since it was put in. The procedure is quite simple.
There is a washing fluid which basically cleans the system and absorbs the remains of the old water-based fluid and has to be filled in the system and then flushed all out, prior to top up with the definitive waterless fluid.

p.s : KC3, you have PM !

Best Regards
 
The article link I posted mentions the capability of higher operating temperature options, lower/lowering of coolant system operating pressure and changing thermostats and fan thermal switches.

I would not be a fan of increasing temperatures for the following reasons:

1) Engine oils already have high thermal stress demands placed on them and I don't think addind to this is a good idea, despite whatever other benefits may be on offer by doing so

2) The higher temperatures I think are realted to deisel engine combustion benefits. In big trucks they can have huge induction systems with massive intercoolers that can deliver really cool air into the hot chamber. This is probably not going to work as well in a car where due to space restrictions etc. so the delivered charge density is not possibly going to be as good.

3) In petrol engines detonation (spontaeous combustion) is a real bing issue and an engine killer if not controlled. Heat is one of the factors (e.g. hot plugs) in controlling detonation/pre-ignition.

4) Vehicle sensory systems and ECU operating paramters would require changing.

So on the above points I think for cars and waterless cooling everything should be left as they are.

This then leads to the diligence in doing a complete drain and flush of the system before refilling.

Looks like NSMG has successfully done this.

One question / concern I have is regarding on road recovery from a cooling issue. I always carry 1L of antifreeze in the boot well of the car along with 1L oil, brake fluid, etc. I tow a caravan 2000 miles to Italy and back, 3000 miles total, and try to be prepared for all eventualities. With a traditional water base coolant a burst hose or other leak can be repared and even just a straight water top-up is readily done.

With a waterless coolant then is say 2L+ were to be lost then can one just bung water in or is that going to totally mess the remaining waterless coolant up? Form a gel? Block coolant channels? etc?.

Just a factor worth considering as they (waterless coolant mfgs) are quite intense on ensuring all the water/moisture is totally cleaned out of the system.
 
s130 said:
The article link I posted mentions the capability of higher operating temperature options, lower/lowering of coolant system operating pressure and changing thermostats and fan thermal switches.

I would not be a fan of increasing temperatures for the following reasons:

1) Engine oils already have high thermal stress demands placed on them and I don't think addind to this is a good idea, despite whatever other benefits may be on offer by doing so

2) The higher temperatures I think are realted to deisel engine combustion benefits. In big trucks they can have huge induction systems with massive intercoolers that can deliver really cool air into the hot chamber. This is probably not going to work as well in a car where due to space restrictions etc. so the delivered charge density is not possibly going to be as good.

3) In petrol engines detonation (spontaeous combustion) is a real bing issue and an engine killer if not controlled. Heat is one of the factors (e.g. hot plugs) in controlling detonation/pre-ignition.

4) Vehicle sensory systems and ECU operating paramters would require changing.

So on the above points I think for cars and waterless cooling everything should be left as they are.

This then leads to the diligence in doing a complete drain and flush of the system before refilling.

Looks like NSMG has successfully done this.

One question / concern I have is regarding on road recovery from a cooling issue. I always carry 1L of antifreeze in the boot well of the car along with 1L oil, brake fluid, etc. I tow a caravan 2000 miles to Italy and back, 3000 miles total, and try to be prepared for all eventualities. With a traditional water base coolant a burst hose or other leak can be repared and even just a straight water top-up is readily done.

With a waterless coolant then is say 2L+ were to be lost then can one just bung water in or is that going to totally mess the remaining waterless coolant up? Form a gel? Block coolant channels? etc?.

Just a factor worth considering as they (waterless coolant mfgs) are quite intense on ensuring all the water/moisture is totally cleaned out of the system.
Click to expand...

I must say that the waterlessfluid was put in my car on the occasion of a waterpump change, so the system was properly cleaned from the old fluid. This is important.
About being broken down the road, well that is a good point !
 
NSMG said:
About being broken down the road, well that is a good point !
Click to expand...

Yes and this is an often overlooked point. When one deviates from manufacturers specifications you possibly also deviate from road side rescue services abililities to get you running again. If not them then possibly yourself as an able mechanic but can't always take everyting with your required to get your vehicle back on the road.

If your ride is your dedicated track car then being recovered to home and missing and event is a bummer. If your ride is your daily ride and your holiday wheels then recovery to home / termination of trip / etc is going to be painful and expensive.
 
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