Technical Low power at low RPM, then suddenly takes off at around 2500rpm.

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Technical Low power at low RPM, then suddenly takes off at around 2500rpm.

robertalbert192

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Hi
I know there's been a few threads on this, i'm not sure if i'm breaking any rules by posting my own issues. I'm new to the forum.

It started the other week....

Occasionally would have a surge of power whilst in the lower gears, then sorted itself and I thought it was just one of those things.

Then a couple of days ago I found when starting off that there was very little power at low rpm, eventually with my foot to the floor, it'd suddenly take off and i'd get the sort of speed I was used to from it. Then once I slowed down it'd be the same problem again. I found on the first day it happened that after about 30 minutes into my journey it seemed to sort itself out.

The next day I drove it again to work, its about an hour. It started off absolutely fine and I naively thought it may have been fixed. Then about 15 minutes into journey the problems started again, then the engine management light came on, eventually the car gave out less and less power until it stalled, then cut out each time it started. I assumed this was the engine management cutting it.

I got my car recovered and checked this site, I found others had similar problems, that seemed to be centred around the EGR valve either needing cleaning or replacing. I took it to my local garage today and explained what I thought it may be.

They rang me back later in the day saying that the fault codes they were getting were referring to the EGR and DPF. They cleaned the EGR out and then ran it for a while and tried to do a "regeneration". It'd run for a while before the EMS putting it back into limp mode. Next step they said was to replace the EGR valve and see if that sorts it. They said if it wasn't this it could the DPF, which I understands is very expensive.

I've read on here about putting an EGR blank in, which assuming it turns out to be the EGR valve may be an idea to stop any trouble with the DPF in the future. I was after any advice on this? I have no idea about cars really so don't know if this has all made sense or not.
 
Yeah, this sounds almost identical to my issues. When the EGR valve breaks, it gradually blocks up the DPF (which is what happened to me), so the sooner you get it fixed the better.

You should be able to replace the EGR yourself if you have the time. If you like I can put together some photos and tool list. I got a second hand one from eBay for £45 delivered and fitted it myself.

If you want to double check that it's the EGR, blank it off temporarily with a few layers of aluminium can. You won't need to take the whole EGR out, just loosen it and slip the metal in place. This will solve the power issues and also give the DPF a chance to regenerate. Then once you have the new EGR or refurb EGR you can replace it.

After a few days of running with the new EGR your Engine Management light will go out as it slowly realises that everything is ok.

If anything, my advice would be do this sooner rather than later. Replacement DPF cost me £700 ish fitted.
 
Hi "robertalbert192" and "cmm.sedici",:)

Welcome to the forum Rob..... this sounds very much like the problem cmm.sedici had and has hopefully sorted.

It seems mainly related to the Multijet, diesel, EGR valve "lock pin" becomming clogged with exhaust soot and seizing.
Doesn't sound like there's a warning light when this happens until the DPF is almost knackered and triggers a warning!

There is a thread that mentions stripping/cleaning and re-greasing the EGR but sadly has no step by step guide or pictures at the mo.

Would be great for FIAT/G.M. to help its customers but, in my opinion, would face too much shame and expense. (n)
Prove me wrong.... Please!

If I could, I would take the EGR out of the engine and throw it to the moon for all the good it does (Possible dangerous breakdowns, premature engine malfunction lights, increased engine wear, etc.)

However, it sounds like it has been built to work together with the engine, MAF and ECU so couldn't recommend a permanent blanking plate at the mo.... would like to but are reluctantant to experiment ourselves unless we have a fault code reset tool.
Anyone know if the OBD11 tool works on the sedici and if so where the connection terminal is located/looks like??

Purchased a genuine Fiat Sedici, mechanics', Training Manual.

It describes the EGR as follows....


FUNCTION: The engine ECU controls the EGR solenoid valve with a square wave signal when the coolant temperature is > 20degreesC and the engine speed is in the range from 800 and 3000 rpm.
variations of the signal causes the EGR coil to move a lock pin and regulate the flow of exhaust gas from the exhaust manifold to the intake manifold. This provides two results:
- less air is let into the engine;
- the firing temperature is lowered due to the presence of inert gas consequently reducing the formation of NOx (nitrogen oxide).

The engine ECU is constantly informed of the amount of recirculated air by the intake air flow and temperature sensor: indeed, the difference (Qgr) between the expected amount of air (Qam) for engine operation at a certain speed and the lower value indicated by the intake air flow and temperature sensor (Qar) is the amount of recirculated gas.
The EGR solenoid valve controlled by the injection ECU lets some exhaust gas from the exhaust manifold back into intake.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't let the above baffle you too much...

From cmm.sedici.... Many thanks.:cool:... his experience after fitting a blanking plate on his Sedici was the warning light was triggered.

Gonna name you "Saint cmm.sedici" from now on!!! :worship:

Previous posts of successfuly blanking the EGR may be refering to earlier Fiat mareas' with the same Multijet engine but different ECU set ups.
 
had same problem, you should first fix egr or buy new one, and then clean DPF
you can do it with fiat ecu scan
 
Been doing some research on blanking off the EGR and found a useful thread for us all to read on a vauxhall site.... http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131610

For any who aren't aware, it may be worth knowing the history of the Sedici.
Don't know how accurate... info is accumulated by me from various internet sites... so apologies for any errors.

The Project was started as the Suzuki SX4 (twin car made in the same fatory). A diesel engine was needed as an option but non suitable were manufactured by Suzuki.
At the time, General Motors had large shares in numerous car manufacturers such as Vauxhaull, Saab, Fiat and Suzuki so it was agreed to use the tried and tested 1.9 Multijet rather than spend extra money and design one from scratch.
This comes as a small bonus because many of the engine parts used are interchangeable like EGR valves, Bosch MAF's, fuel filters and oil filters and are suprisingly cheaper from different manufaturers.... genuine Vauxhall oil filter for £3.50 fits.... all you have to do is find the right part number and search on-line (cross reference)... But be aware of void warranty issues.

Anyhow..... back to the point... the Vauxhall 1.9 diesels have similar problems.
It's worth noting these are basically the same engines and a lot of the recommended fixes seem to be to Blank off the EGR, remove the DPF and have the ECU re-mapped to stop regeneration and error codes occurring.

This could be cheaper than a new DPF and a solution to the engine management light problem.

It's also worth realising the soot that creates enough carbon build-up to stop the EGR working doesn't just stop there. It carries on into the inlet manifold.... looks like these will eventually fail also.


Fiat, General Motors, Vauxhall etc. have been using this flawed set-up for long enough to realise the danger, damage and expense it is costing us :mad:

Will try to find more info and post later on the DPF removal, pro's + cons.
 
Okay... apologies for the link not working. Looks like the website is "undergoing maintenance" at the mo. :eek:

Their homepage http://www.vectra-c.com/
Hopefully will be working again shortly.

It is basically a thread, 25+ pages, relating to numerous Vauxhall, 1.9 diesel owners having EGR troubles.


Have done more research on the DPF removal routine.... spoke this morning to a local, reputable, exhaust depot who are an authorised branch of "Top Gear Tuning".... An ECU tuning and Re-mapping company that specialize in DPF removal. http://www.topgear-tuning.com/
They checked and said successful DPF removal/EGR blanking + ECU re-map is possible on the 120bhp Sedici. :slayer:

But have been warned downsides would be....

Voided manufacture warranty,
Care must be taken if servicing is done at a main dealer so as not to restore the re-mapped ECU to its original protocol,

Upsides should be...

More horsepower, :cool:
better MPG,
Blanked of EGR so no more soot forced into the engine.
Will eventually pay for itself due to the fuel saving.


Questions we asked were.....

Will it fail the MOT?...... NO.
Can I take the working DPF out and sell to raise funds?..... NO. Due to new laws the orginal DPF needs to be stripped of its internals and re-used.
Will the car be charged more road tax once emissions tested?..... NO.
Will the car still regenerate?.... No. All issues will be removed from the ECU including the "Oil Degredation" as no longer needed.
Can i still use the "OBD2" connection and "FiatEcuScan" software without corrupting the ECU?.... YES.
Will the ECU still send error/fault codes from other components if needed?.... YES.


All sounds pretty good so far and will probably go ahead with the procedure in the next few weeks. So will post later on this issue if anyone is interested?

Still have a few unknowns... must we inform our insurance of the ECU remap?..... will the car start to smoke like the old taxi cabs?

Am willing to pay the £480 +VAT if it means the car will now be safe for my wife and 3yr old daughter to start using again without the fear of breaking down again.
 
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