Technical Karolis Punto 75 Turbo project

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Technical Karolis Punto 75 Turbo project

Karolis

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I was dreaming about it a lot of time, a lot of time spent following here the turbo projects to accumulate info and ideas.

Now I've got a present, an IHI RHB4 turbo and a intercooler, so started to look how it could fix. It's only first 5% of job, don't know when will be done the rest (money money money).

Crappy looking Punto 75 1995, 363000 km. A lot of jobs done (repair / maintenance). lpg.

Punto Gt brakes (3th gen. on front, rear discs), some lower springs (should be eibach sportline but i'm not sure - someone has the part number?), eibach antiroll bars, -1kg flywheel, freshe engine, nothing particular.

I have this car already 5 years, I thinked to throwing it away a couple of years ago, but then changed engine, started fixing everything (part after part), then some slight tuning (springs, shocks, better brakes, better seats, alfa 145) and abbandoned the scrpayard idea. Now only a powerful engine is missing.

Will do 1.2 8v with 16v pistons, must choose the compression ratio but I think around 8-9, boost around 1 bar, megasquirt 2 with wideband. Would like to hit around 140-150hp and 200nm, this should be the maximum possible to push out without big problems. Should be enough for overpassing with spinning wheels in 2nd gear :D After that, when everything will be done, and if I'll be still crazy, will go for tjet (not going directly for pleasure of building a turbo conversion and no money).

Some pics:

test bench engine (for keep car still running)


nice gift


scrappy car





First moves:








Love the space:





Hope to not taking years for seeing it finished :D

sorry for bad english
 
Some photos from the past:

engine change years ago (scrapyard big risk for the car that time :D was really pissed off with red eyes but not found nothing to buy, so repaired the punto and keeped it till now) Removing old engine when saw how bad was all when removed blown head


Flywheel fun, now dreaming about fidanza, like really much the -1kg on standard one


Head gasket fun, had some problems, nothing new with fiats :)


Rear discs, slower and longer job that I thinked...


16v pistons
 
I think what you meant to say was
zona.gif
 
Yes I have tricky's project saved in the bookmarks with the photos also.

Yes he has some different things, but the there are a lot of ways to proceed, and some are not really better or worse than other.

I have still a lot of things to decide and see what will be better / cheaper :)

Example, for the exhaust I think that I'll do a Novitec kit flange copy, it's an add on rotated in front by 90°, in this way there are minor problems with oil filter and that water tube.

turbo1.jpg
.

This should be easier to weld for me.

Obviously, a specific manifold equal lenght with that 4 tubes rotating like snakes is very very sexy :yum:

I have a little garage, but it's for bike trailer, bike, a lot of old crap, car tyres, wrenches etc etc The car and car works are outdoor stuff :) Also it could be difficult to work inside because it's so little (in an totally empty garage opening both doors it's almost impossible)
 
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I don't think the oil will drain properly if at all with that return setup.. I think the turbo might just be too low to get it to flow well. Its only gravity making it return to sump so it will pool in that loop.. Or at least thats my understanding of it - i keep looking at mine thinking i need to get the turbo higher but its not as drastic as that.

Interesting though, you couldn't mount it like that in a cento as the turbo would be right where the radiator goes.. I'm jealous of the space you have in there lol.
 
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The only benefit I can see of this set up is it allows you to retain the original manifold without modification. Blu is of course correct about the oil return, that is a poor effort. Do yourself a favour keep the turbo as high as you can and minimise any bends in the pipework where possible.
 
By putting the turbo in that way everything seems fine to me. Oil drain I mean. Need only a bracket for keeping up everything, it's a big force lever on the head. We'll see better in the future, there's always time for cutting the manifold and welding a turbo flange on it. Finding a good welder is a little problem here... stupid italians. :bang:
 
There was a post not so long ago in the Cinq section by lxfusion about this Novitec drain. In general not good, followinig Blu's argumentation.

As a motivation I will say this: dude, you have a *Punto*, you can put an elephant in the engine bay, you should really consider a proper tabular manifold. If you feel you need a welder for something then I would say you need a welder for everything, so you will have to find one anyway. Once you do putting together a proper manifold should not be a problem.
 
Have a study of this article it explains in detail what we are discussing:

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Turbo-Oiling-and-Cooling-Part-1/A_2606/article.html



"The oil drain from a turbo operates via gravity. That is, the pressure drop across the turbo bearing is nearly complete and it is only gravity that causes the oil to flow back to the sump. In fact, it cannot really be termed ‘oil’ as after it has passed through the turbo, the oil becomes an aerated foam – one reference suggests it looks like ‘dirty whipped cream’. It’s therefore important that:
  • The drain line is much larger in diameter than the pressure feed line
  • The connection to the sump is made above the oil level
  • The drain pipe is kept as close to vertical as possible
If the sump drain joins at a level below the oil, the much lower density of the aerated oil will cause it to sit on top of the sump oil, gradually backing-up to the turbo.
In applications where the turbo is positioned too low relative to the engine for normal drain-back to occur, an electric or mechanical scavenge pump can be fitted. (This approach is adopted in many piston aircraft engines.) In this situation a small sump must be installed beneath the turbo allowing the oil to accumulate within it, with the pump then drawing from this sump. Turbos mounted remote from the engine (eg at the back of the car) also use a scavenge pump to return the oil to the engine."

Have a good look around the rest of the website too it contains some of the most useful information you will find anywhere on turbocharging a N/A engine (appart from Fiat Forum of course :D).
 
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Thanks for the link. Very useful!

Yes the novitec curve is bad, looks bad in that photo, also in the "angle" there can be a "bath" for accumulating oil. But that's on a 1100 engine. I have a 1.2, the block is bigger and the turbo will be higher so it could be ok. I should be able to get a decent drain line, if not, will do manifold cut and weld, or a new specific manifold.

What oil must be used on a turbo fire?

I ran always 10-40 semisint the cheaper I can get (elf, tamoil, agip, that stuff). On Punto GTs I heard using 10-60 full sint. I think to pass to a full sint too, maybe nothing extremely raffinate and expensive, simple full sint, but which grade? 5-30 5-40 10-40 10-50 10-60 ?

I also noticed that I can't edit my first two posts, what's the time limit? Damn, I would like to add something and write better car characteristics, details and also project points already reached and the other to sort out. Hm :/
 
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Thanks, it will be done for sure, don't know when exactly, but will be done. It's my little dream to make fast that red can :D :slayer: Almost nobody here in italy understands why I want to do this on this old "****ty" car, here in Italy the 1.2 turbos are very rare, not like in uk or poland or other countries. Just only guys from italian megasquirt forum support me (the turbo gift is from one of them :D ), projects like this need "open source brain" heheheh :D By the way, it's only matter of point of view. I admire everyone from this forum that has these works already done, should be a very great satisfaction :)
 
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