Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 17-01-2017   #1
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 57
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Question Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

OK, so I've been chatting with a colleague who relayed an horrific story of the time a relative took too long to switch out the battery in their car key remote, and the thing wiped the car's code. So it wouldn't start it. The difficulty in getting that sorted was reportedly tremendous.

Of course, this wouldn't happen today, I was thinking. I expect early designs used volatile RAM, constantly powered by the battery leading to frequent and risky battery changes. Of course, these days they'll just use a flash chip. Right?

Umm, hang on though. These are companies that, in 2012 when our keys were designed (and mine was made), think a line in socket is exotic new technology that should cost a 3 figure sum, and only introduced them a number of decades after popularity was achieved in the home. These are companies who took so long to introduce FM on car radios that radio as an industry and medium almost gave up and died in the UK for a while there, as everyone preferred tapes to twiddling the dial every few miles. These are the companies that kept cassette going for all those years, and who will be fuelling the CD market for many more. Forward thinking in electronics? Umm...

So, I ask you, the car 'sperts, which is it? Naff or Flash? I await enlightenment.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by AndyCalling; 17-01-2017 at 00:59.
AndyCalling is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #2
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 4,095
Thanks: 415
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by AndyCalling View Post
OK, so I've been chatting with a colleague who relayed an horrific story of the time a relative took too long to switch out the battery in their car key remote, and the thing wiped the car's code. So it wouldn't start it. The difficulty in getting that sorted was reportedly tremendous.

Of course, this wouldn't happen today, I was thinking. I expect early designs used volatile RAM, constantly powered by the battery leading to frequent and risky battery changes. Of course, these days they'll just use a flash chip. Right?

Umm, hang on though. These are companies that, in 2012 when our keys were designed (and mine was made), think a line in socket is exotic new technology that should cost a 3 figure sum, and only introduced them a number of decades after popularity was achieved in the home. These are companies who took so long to introduce FM on car radios that radio as an industry and medium almost gave up and died in the UK for a while there, as everyone preferred tapes to twiddling the dial every few miles. These are the companies that kept cassette going for all those years, and who will be fuelling the CD market for many more. Forward thinking in electronics? Umm...

So, I ask you, the car 'sperts, which is it? Naff or Flash? I await enlightenment.

On most modern systems, neither. the immobiliser code in the key is fixed (probably laser cut links on the silicon) and the cars ECUs remember what keys they are programmed for. The ECU memory is EEPROM (typically not "flash" as they are tiny memories and not written too very often). The remotes typically use a fixed code (as immobiliser) and a rolling code to stop "grapping". If you leave the remote battery dead for too long you normally just have to go through a re-sync fro the rolling code.
Your friend may have had a bigger issue than just a flat key battery.


Robert G8RPI.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,862
Thanks: 97
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Unrelated but your friends story did remind me of my old Seiko Perpetual Calendar watch. In a similar manner, you had a short period within which to swap batteries.


The recommended approach was to hire Mel Gibson, a darkened room and a close-to-zero digital clock in order to heighten the tension. Owing to his 'views' his career went the same way as the mullet, which left a gap. Having failed, you were thus left with a complicated routine of clicking tweezers onto tiny contacts in order to reset to the current date.


Happy days.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AB100 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Guildford
Posts: 975
Thanks: 118
Trader Rating: 1
R1NGA has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

.... which also reminds me of a mate with a beautiful, mechanical IWC Perpetual Calendar wris****ch that he hardly ever wore and it sat in his safe for a couple of years. When he did eventually decide to get it out and wear it again, he had to manually wind the hands forward for nearly 700 days to get the watch back to the correct day, month and year. That model didn't have a quick-set function......
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

R1NGA is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #5
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 57
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Heh, the best battery related design 'feature' was for one of the old BBC Micro home computers (I think it was the Master?). When originally designed, it was to have the time and nvram powered by a small nicad cell that charged when power was present. They were briefly popular, however before it was released they switched to a lithium button cell as with modern PCs. Fine, but the charging mechanism was left in to save redesign money and it turns out an obscure command code executed on the computer would reactivate the charge circuit. What's more, a common word processor of the day would cause this to happen under certain circumstances. The result? A short while later the computer would detonate in front of you.

I always relate this tale when some poster on PC forums states that bugs can't damage your PC. It has been known.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AndyCalling is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #6
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,862
Thanks: 97
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by AndyCalling View Post
I always relate this tale when some poster on PC forums states that bugs can't damage your PC. It has been known.



Indeed. The previous poster, RINGA, is now languishing in a Turkish jail for actually trying to embed a swear word inside his reminiscences - software is WAY too smart for that:


"......mechanical IWC Perpetual Calendar wris****ch that he hardly....."


Serves the funning melon-farmer right I say.
Likes Eklipze3k liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AB100 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 17-01-2017   #7
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 57
Thanks: 5
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

I had to sn1gger...
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AndyCalling is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #8
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 4,095
Thanks: 415
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by AB100 View Post
Indeed. The previous poster, RINGA, is now languishing in a Turkish jail for actually trying to embed a swear word inside his reminiscences - software is WAY too smart for that:


"......mechanical IWC Perpetual Calendar wris****ch that he hardly....."


Serves the funning melon-farmer right I say.
Just a reminder guys and gals, forum rules state:


"You may not post words or URLs that are censored by adding spaces, dots, or substituting characters; or by any other means in an attempt to defeat any censors put in place. "
https://www.fiatforum.com/rules.html


I know this is not a bad thread for that, but thin end of the wedge etc......


Robert G8RPI.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #9
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Guildford
Posts: 975
Thanks: 118
Trader Rating: 1
R1NGA has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

I wondered why those ***'s appeared and I assumed it was some mildly hysterical fit that my iPad had during the posting. Little did I know it was actually ridiculous flawed software saving us from the disgusting topic of timepieces that one wears on ones wrist.

Well I've learned something today, so that's good I suppose.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

R1NGA is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #10
No strings on me
 
Eklipze3k's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 14,846
Thanks: 659
Trader Rating: 0
Eklipze3k has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

I used to work in place where emails would be blocked if they contained the word Scunthorpe, you may be able to guess why ...
__________________
Eklipze3k is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #11
No strings on me
 
Eklipze3k's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 14,846
Thanks: 659
Trader Rating: 0
Eklipze3k has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Just a reminder guys and gals, forum rules state:


"You may not post words or URLs that are censored by adding spaces, dots, or substituting characters; or by any other means in an attempt to defeat any censors put in place. "
https://www.fiatforum.com/rules.html


I know this is not a bad thread for that, but thin end of the wedge etc......


Robert G8RPI.
In fairness, Ringa didn't do that, he posted a completely innocent word which the forum overzealously censored.
Likes jrkitching liked this post
__________________
Eklipze3k is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #12
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 8,401
Thanks: 885
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by Eklipze3k View Post
In fairness, Ringa didn't do that, he posted a completely innocent word which the forum overzealously censored.


and if the auto-censor function hadn't done what it did, I'd never have realised that the commonly used word for a timepiece thingy you wear on your wrist contains a hidden naughty word .

Of course, you could always call it a wrist watch, which should keep everybody happy
Likes R1NGA liked this post
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"


Last edited by jrkitching; 18-01-2017 at 12:23.
jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #13
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 4,095
Thanks: 415
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post


and if the auto-censor function hadn't done what it did, I'd never have realised that the commonly used word for a timepiece thingy you wear on your wrist contains a hidden naughty word .

Of course, you could always call it a wrist watch, which should keep everybody happy
OK, I was not aware of any auto censor (which breaks the forum rules by inserting stars) so a quick test:
Wrist watch
Wris****ch


Robert G8RPI.
Thanks jrkitching thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #14
Moderator
 
g8rpi's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 4,095
Thanks: 415
Trader Rating: 0
g8rpi has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
OK, I was not aware of any auto censor (which breaks the forum rules by inserting stars) so a quick test:
Wrist watch
Wris****ch


Robert G8RPI.
OK, it does auto censor. Sorry R1nga.


Robert G8RPI.
Thanks R1NGA, jrkitching thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

g8rpi is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-01-2017   #15
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 8,401
Thanks: 885
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Remote thinking and the paucity of memory

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
OK, I was not aware of any auto censor (which breaks the forum rules by inserting stars)
We should ban the auto sensor!
Likes Eklipze3k liked this post
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) Programming New Remote Keys into the Remote Receiver GialloEvo94 Multipla 5 29-06-2012 19:47
Thinking of a new camera. Thinking of a FujiFilm S1730 Most Easterly Pandas Imaging 13 07-10-2010 13:16
(G) Thinking of buying a 21 remote central locking kit.... Phil_ Punto (Mk2/2b) 12 28-01-2010 19:56
Thinking (just Thinking) about maybe selling the Bravo Ben B FIAT Boo Archives 15 20-11-2006 10:22
OT - Memory stick / memory stick pro Sven FIAT Boo Archives 5 18-10-2005 00:31