Hi,
Some of you might have seen my restoration of a mk1 4x4 on auto****e last year. Its a 1986 model with the old pushrod engine.
Its fine and all, but pretty underpowered. I would like to swap it out for something with a little more pep. I dont need to be tearing up the tarmac in a trafficlight grandprix or anything....just a bit more oomph to make it more comfortable in modern traffic.

So, I have questions. I did some searching this morning but couldnt find specific answers or contradicting information, so sorry if this gets asked every fortnight.....

1 - Most obvious - what engines will go in? Will they require shell modifications to the mounts? I assume the FIRE units are what we are talking about.
2 - What CC capacities and what donor cars would have them?
3 - Will these engines fit my existing gearbox? I hear the bolt battern might be different.
4 - Any way to modify that or will I need to find a later gearbox?

Legally here it should really be another carb-fed engine, but realistically I would prefer an injection unit. I reckon a single point injection would pass ok. However if there is a decent-ish modern carb fed engine, I would take that option to save hassles with wiring in an ECU and all that jazz.


Many Thanks.

I moved from the 965 pushrod engine to a 899 SPI engine for my fiat panda 4x4 because I needed to retain the gearbox (was tired of carb and timing issues)

You should note that the differences between the push rod, and the newer fire engines make replacement far more involved as engine mounts are in very different places, gearbox bell housings are different, exhaust and cooling routes are different. You will have to loose your existing gearbox which means you will likely need to play with drive shafts and linkages probably hubs?

If you are going to go that route I would purchase a complete car rather than just an engine, the amount of loom I needed to take from the donner car as well as the Code box and keyset for the ECU to run!

Also note that you will need to sort out a fuel pump as you are running a mechanical pump at the moment.

I saved a massive amount of work going for the 899, but my goal was never to get more power, just more reliability (and its still quicker than it ever was)

Aye, I have just read your thread about it - looks like thats the best solution. Not getting any power gains looks like its compensated by getting driveability and reliability.

I have other cars for going fast, I just dont use the Panda as much as I like as I dont trust it to be reliable. Looks like what you have done is the better solution.
Cheers,

No problem, all the vids of what I did are on youtube and there are some good wiring bits on the thread to save you having to do the legwork I did.
I can honestly say that after doing it, its like a new car.
Feel free to message me if you need any help.

Fitting a FIRE engine and box will involve mount modification, either adding the mounting points to the inner wings or modifying the FIRE mounts to bolt up to the existing Mk1 mounting points. I believe the bottom gearbox mounting is the same so it is the two top mountings that would need changing.

I can see no other reason you cannot use a Mk2 FIRE box, driveshafts and linkages etc should all work I think.

If you convert to FIRE then you have quite a large choice of engines. 1108, 1242 and even 1368cc. The 1108cc was fitted as standard to 4x4s in Europe after they stopped selling them in the UK so that could be a reasonable choice, you could possibly get the whole setup with the electrics etc already set up to fit in a Panda. The 1108cc was also fitted to the Cinquecento, Seicento, Mk1 Punto, Mk3 Panda and various others.

The 1242cc came in 8 or 16v, you would probably want an 8v, fitted in Puntos, mk3 Panda etc. Best to go for Mk1 Puntos if you want a donor, the electrics get more complicated the newer you go with fly by wire throttle and body computers. A 1108 or 1242 8v will accept an 999cc carb inlet manifold and distributor so you could retain the carb if you wanted.

16vs give a huge jump in performance, the same applies to the electrics as the 8v. A 16v will need a custom exhaust, whereas an 8v can make use of a standard Panda system.

I have fitted a 1242 16v from a Brava into a 4x4 and I am currently fitting a 1242 8v to a LHD Sisley. Both retaining the original engine loom.