Hi there Robert,

Sounds like you've got an interesting project on your hands, but I am a bit confused why you wish to put an 1108 head on a 1368 block. Sounds like a performance hinderance than improvement; are you modding the head to suit? or is this a FIRE engine trick? I don't really know them very well, I've got much more experience with the 903/965cc ohv engines.

Will follow your work on the £999 challenge to. I was thinking of entering the Marbella into that. I need to total up the cost of it all though but certainly I got all the main components and the car for ~£500...just depends what all the bits and pieces added up to really!

Cheers,
Si

I wish I never sold my 965 4x4.

The Mk1 Panda was better built but nowhere near as rust proofed. When I got a crack in the windscreen and the autoglass guy took most of the frame out with it (well filler, rust and old newspaper at least) that was the end of the car. I sold the running gear to a guy who was planning to modify a Blitz Buggy and use it for trials. I don't know if he ever finished it. Apart from the transfer boxes not being as strong the Mk2 4x4's were just missing something. The mighty FIRE engine had a little less torque and a different sound I guess but the thing I really missed were the Mk1 ribbed sides. I don't know if this was a deliberate design feature but it always reminded me of the Willis Jeep. Anyway if I knew as much about welding and stuff then as I do now I'd still have my 965 4x4 I've been looking but basket case Mk1 4x4's are making two grand (I've only seen three for sale in five years) and front wheel drives are doing well. It won't be long before the Panda becomes the new 500.

Back on topic (forgive the nostalgic side track there) thanks to Most Easterly Pandas buying the 769 FIRE engine the powder blue (not Gulf racing powder blue due to copy write issues) paint arrived yesterday, so I can get back to the welding knowing the "Guffification" can begin.

To save orange paint I wonder if the Cinquecento bumper will fit the front of the Panda?

I've always thought of the Marbella as the Clubman version of the Panda Si. If that makes sense.

VmanC Can we not simply swap wheels so the teeth are the same size?

Yes I hope so, the bolts are very different but I haven't got round to unbolting them to see if the threaded hole in the camshaft is the same.

The reason I want to put the 1108 head on the 1368 block is because if I need to advance the timing I'll need to undo two 10mm bolts and turn the dizzy instead of messing about with a lap top and remap the ecu every 300 Yards.

Two reasons for the 1108 head. It has less restrictive ports and I have one in my shed and one on my Cinquecento.

Welcome to the forums.

I also love Fiat Panda Classic, It's my dream Fiat, except for Duna, Regata, 127, 126 and 500.

Okay I took three sleeping tablets last night and woke up to to find my laptop had this on the screen (and I've bid on a knackered SAAB Aero Estate, bloody eBay).

[img]http://thumbsnap.com/s/CfeWFEAE.jpg[/img]|http://thumbsnap.com/CfeWFEAE

So with the actuated pulley from the air con' unit wired to a switch on the dash, and a cable from the old heater matrix to open and close the flap to go from N/A to charged. Looks fairly simple and may even work.

Damn it! I re-sized the picture and all that. Never mind you'll have to click and view it.

When you put images in, you just click on the picture icon and put the URL of the image in. You seem to be first clicking on the link icon beside it and then putting the picture in, leaving a redundant link with a name of the URL you are trying to show.

The full code for the picture you are trying to show above is:


Which results in this:

Ok this is mad! Can't wait to see how it comes together, not seen something like this done before I must admit!

Interesting about 1108 head on the FIRE unit. Maybe one day this will apply to me... Till then it's 965 / 1036cc fun for me (oh and 1049cc too of course). FIRE is all too modern haha

Have fun, don't blow it up now!

Si

1368cc arguably the best block.
1108cc 8V best head (in my opinion it's like a mini-Hemi)
866 best production cam'.
Weber best carb'
Distributor best re-mappable ecu.

If it hasn't been done before it's probably because it either can't be done or won't work at all, but I have two 1108 blocks just in case.

I'm having issues with the supercharger. Location, mounting and belt drive pulleys are close to being decided; but the big question now is...

Draw or Blow through?





What do you guys think?


P.S :worship: Got the picturemebobjig working.

Could the mod's please move this to "Members motors" please? :thumbup:

It def won't work.........













You have no fuel pipes......




Should be fun...looking forward to seeing this all done.

I think draw through would be better for this simply as it will be so much easier to set up. Blow through carbs almost always leek at seals eventually, and generally have very weird problems! Would need a fuel pressure regulator fitted and a fuel pump that is capable of meeting boost pressure plus a bit.

Just my thought anyway, up to you of course!

Si

Typically as soon as get hold of the X-1/9 carb' and start working out how to convert it to a manual choke I change my mind about draw or blow. Almost definitely going for the draw through set up (this week at least, I change direction more often than a woman in a shoe shop).

Meanwhile something I have decided to do is not die driving a Panda so today I've been working the angles for the roll cage.

Started out by tying some ribbon (couldn't find any string) around the upright where I want the weld the diagonal bar to later...



...sticking the other end in place with tape.



Then used the ribbon as a guide to draw a stencil.



Popped over to my local forge the get the pipes cut and the correct angles.



Used the off cut as a guide for to draw and grind out a flange...





...ready to weld and paint.



I'll finish the dirty welding inside first though.

Okay so I did the clean welding today. For two reasons, 1/ I'm doing the school run in a bit and didn't want to lose track of time under the car and 2/ The lengths of bar would probably have been nicked if I left them anywhere. Metal theft is at an all time high in this part of rural Norfolkistan.

So I tacked the diagonals to the uprights only to discover I couldn't get the bloody cage back out of the car to finish it and re-install after some tidy bench welds. So the windows had to come out...



...and it got done. Considering the lack of space and rain showers pretty well.



I need to find out how strong the seat bars are so I can use one as a cross bar to mount the shoulder straps from my harness to.



I will get back to the dirty welding soon enough. My eBay free listing firesale has reaped in enough for a pair of 40's better suited to a draw through conversion just as an interesting alternative gets listed as well.

Not much in the way of progress to report today. I've taken the seat out of Guff I and placed it in Guff II to see how it looks...



...I was actually thinking of getting a different seat but it looks so right in there it has to stay.

It had been suggested that the crank to cam' ratio may be different on the 1368 block. Basically because the 1368 block is a bored and stroked version of the FIRE engine the crank may turn at a slower rate and fitting the eight valve head wouldn't work. I was fairly sure this wasn't the case but checked to save a headache later.

1108cc block...



...A481 wheel approximately 55mm across.

1368cc block...



...the same A481 wheel 55mm in diameter. Phew. Thank you for making the suggestion I would have hated to have built the engine only for it not to have worked. :thumbup:

I've been getting too horny with the Fantasia as I have found the second of the Fiat Coupe horns...



...I tried wiring them in parallel first and either horn would work but when both were wired neither would. The same thing in series. There aren't enough amps for the dual horns to work.

I fitted the lower tone of the two so it's more of a get out of the way "Honk!" the an excuse me "Meeep!".

Liquid Knight said:

...I tried wiring them in parallel first and either horn would work but when both were wired neither would. The same thing in series. There aren't enough amps for the dual horns to work.

Click to expand...

If you want 2 horns, I would make a simple circuit with a relay (20A?). Easy to do and you take a feed straight off battery, so no issues with blowing fuses and stuff.

BTW the seat looks comfortable In a serious note, thats a nice bit of welding, haven't seen the geometry of the roll cage, but it certainly looks the part!

Liquid Knight said:

It had been suggested that the crank to cam' ratio may be different on the 1368 block. Basically because the 1368 block is a bored and stroked version of the FIRE engine the crank may turn at a slower rate and fitting the eight valve head wouldn't work. I was fairly sure this wasn't the case but checked to save a headache later.

Click to expand...

The crankshaft will turn at the same speed on both engines. That is your reference point on any engine. Now you found the crank pulleys appear the same in size, it is the camshaft you have to worry about now and the ratio it is driven by the crank.
Also another issue it is likely to be the timing belt and water pump. I assume you want to use the 1108 belt. But, since the teeth are different, is a 1108 pump gonna fit on a 1368 block? is the belt long enough (the blocks I assume have different heights)?
If the answer is no, you could try the other way around. Keep the 1368 pump and crank pulley. but, are the camshaft pulleys the same size? Will a 1368 cam pulley fit on a 8V camshaft? and will a 1368 belt tension properly in these circumstances?
Loads of questions, not many answers, I know

Wiring in series (as pictured) is never going to work. You would need 2x 6 volt horns to do that. In parallel they will work together if they both work individually. You might have a low battery. Remember to observe polarity on the horns.

I think the battery may be on it's way out as the clock is loosing time. I tried every combination and the single tone works well enough for now. My Maserati multitone air horn will go on Guff II as it is MSA approved.

Liquid Knight said:

I think the battery may be on it's way out as the clock is loosing time. I tried every combination and the single tone works well enough for now. My Maserati multitone air horn will go on Guff II as it is MSA approved.

Click to expand...

bear in mind the clock is more than likely to be on its way out, I've had 3 in mine before I hit one that didn't lose time! don't use that as an indicator of the health of anything else.