Technical EGR valve - should internal be easy to move

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Technical EGR valve - should internal be easy to move

Retro Pedro

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On my 2005 1.9JTD 8 valve 105, I've currently got my EGR valve dismantled giving it a clean.
Lots of grud in there and electrical end was very sooty.
In the main body, the spring loaded valve mechanism is very hard to move. Please can anybody advise if this is correct or should it be easily moveable?
I did think about trying to unscrew the main screw to release all 3 plates but not sure if that is a good idea. Would make cleaning the internals of the main body alot easier though.
 
In some respects, I might be answering my own question.
Initially, my mind set was that gases entered the chamber end which potentially, when pressure built up, the centre shaft push outwards and activated the plunger on the elctrical end.
Think I might have been totally wrong in my thinking. Infact does it work the other way round.
Is the electrical end actually an actuator? Does an electrical signal pulses a solinoid in the black box and then pushes the centre shaft in the chamber, thus pushing it open?
When I removed that black electric end, it was clogged up with dry black soot. I've cleaned all that out and brushed off the pads, which I guess are the sensors.
At present, I've got the chamber segment separated from the black electronic part and soaking in paraffin (not the electrical part). I've got a bearing puller pushing the spring loaded centre shaft open to allow the paraffin to soak into every nock and cranny.
My only concern is that should the spring be strong enough push the centre shaft closed when I release the pressure from the puller. If it doesn't, I've got my doubts that this valve will operate correctly when back insitu.
I'm not convinced that the centre shaft is moving a freely as it should. I can't see that having to push it open with a puller renders the moving free enough to be pushed open by an electric actuator.
That's my thoughts, what do you guys think:confused:
 
In some respects, I might be answering my own question.
Initially, my mind set was that gases entered the chamber end which potentially, when pressure built up, the centre shaft push outwards and activated the plunger on the elctrical end.
Think I might have been totally wrong in my thinking. Infact does it work the other way round.
Is the electrical end actually an actuator? Does an electrical signal pulses a solinoid in the black box and then pushes the centre shaft in the chamber, thus pushing it open?
When I removed that black electric end, it was clogged up with dry black soot. I've cleaned all that out and brushed off the pads, which I guess are the sensors.
At present, I've got the chamber segment separated from the black electronic part and soaking in paraffin (not the electrical part). I've got a bearing puller pushing the spring loaded centre shaft open to allow the paraffin to soak into every nock and cranny.
My only concern is that should the spring be strong enough push the centre shaft closed when I release the pressure from the puller. If it doesn't, I've got my doubts that this valve will operate correctly when back insitu.
I'm not convinced that the centre shaft is moving a freely as it should. I can't see that having to push it open with a puller renders the moving free enough to be pushed open by an electric actuator.
That's my thoughts, what do you guys think:confused:

If your car is running poorly, you may be having problems with your EGR valve. There are no real tests you can perform at home for EGR valve function. If you have removed your EGR valve, often you can shake it and you will be able to hear the diaphram moving back and forth inside. If you can hear it moving, there is a good chance that your EGR valve is good and needs to be cleaned to return to normal function. If you don't hear anything, your EGR valve might be stuck. Of course, since this is not a reliable test! But if you are into general reckoning rather than definitive testing, this might be a starting point. If you do need to clean your EGR valve, it's not too difficult. What follows are general steps that apply to most units. Newer EGR valves are electronic and have a wiring harness connected to them. For newer units, it is very important to avoid getting corrosive cleaners on the wiring and connectors.
Cleaning Your Egr Valve

  1. Remove the vacuum line
    Carefully remove the rubber vacuum line that is connected to your EGR valve. If it is brittle, broken, frayed, damaged in any way or otherwise seems tired, replace it.
  2. Disconnect the electrical harness
    If your EGR valve has an electrical connection, carefully disconnect it.
  3. Unbolt the EGR valve
    Remove the bolts that attach the EGR valve assembly to the engine. If it doesn't come right off when you have removed the nuts or bolts, it's safe to give a slight tap with a block of wood or a tiny hammer.
  4. Remove the gasket
    If your gasket looks ok (not torn, frayed or disintegrated) you can reuse it. If it's questionable, install a new one.
  5. Soak the EGR valve
    Cleaning the EGR valve assembly is a two-step deal. It really depends on how far you want to go and how much time you have. First, soak the EGR valve in a bowl filled with carb cleaner. Important: If your EGR valve has electronic connections on it, do not submerge the electrical portion in cleaner! Let it soak overnight if you can. If this isn't possible, skip to the next step.
  6. Hand clean the EGR valve
    Once you've let your EGR valve soak in cleaner overnight (if possible) you need to clean its passages, openings and surfaces with a small brush. Toothbrushes and pipe cleaners are great. Important: When hand cleaning, be sure to use chemical resistant gloves and EYE PROTECTION. Carb cleaner is nasty stuff. Basically, you want to clean everything you can reach with your cleaning brushes.
  7. Reinstall the EGR valve
    Now you can reinstall your clean EGR valve. Don't forget to reattach your vacuum hose and your electrical connections if applicable.


Hope this gives you a bit of an indication of what tests you might try. Trust your soaking of the unit works ok.



Paul
 
Thanks for reply Paul - soaking is certainly doing the job of getting rid of the crud.
I'll have a look at the electrical end to hear if I can hear any movement.
Still got my nagging doubts regarding the lack of free movement in the centre shaft.
 
Tip for you mate.....

If you need to clean the egr valve, take out the screws you were on about and separate the electric part from the valve its self, and clean it by dropping it into a bottle of brake FLUID not cleaner. Then you can get rid of the crap that has broken up with said toothbrush

Yes these are tricky yo revove from the car, but when re-fitting, put hex bolts in the lower pipe flange..... this will make life a lot easier
 
Tip for you mate.....

If you need to clean the egr valve, take out the screws you were on about and separate the electric part from the valve its self, and clean it by dropping it into a bottle of brake FLUID not cleaner. Then you can get rid of the crap that has broken up with said toothbrush

Yes these are tricky yo revove from the car, but when re-fitting, put hex bolts in the lower pipe flange..... this will make life a lot easier
Thanks for the tips - valid point about the brake fluid and hex bolts.
Before I reassemble the EGR, think I going to plug in the electrical bit and move the plunger in and out to see if that makes any difference to the EML going off.
 
The electrical part is just a solenoid which you can test across a battery and won't have any bearing on the EML. The EML is thrown on because the ECU does'nt see the correct manifold pressure due to the EGR sticking and allowing in extra air. Try blanking the stupid thing off. If you think you've got grief with this wait 'til you get a car with a DPF!!
 
Cheers maggers for reply
If I blank the EGR off, does that mean I will have to have the ECU/EGR remap done on these 1.9JTD 8 valve. Believe I read that the Multijet you do but I couldn't find any confirmation regarding the 8 valve.
For my money, the valve is stuck, because I'm convinced it should be able to be pushed by hand pressure and I reckon the spring should be strong enough to retract the valve.
Need to get back the freeing it off and then try the blanking.
Saw on another section that a Vauxhall EGR valve similar to the Fiat flavour can be used. Hell of a lot less money than the Fiat version. Apparently, the difference is the angle of the electrical connector but the wiring is long enough to sort that out.
 
Yes, you should be able to push it so a good whack should move it. A soak in a mix of caustic soda should loosen the carbon, it used to work on the baffles from my 2-stroke mopeds back in the day. Yes, the ones on vauxhall engines are a similar Pierburg type, mainly due to the fact that the Vauxhall engines are a JTD variant.
 
The paraffin done it's job. Dislodged the crud and the valve now moves easily under spring pressure. Hopefully that will have saved £65 for the Vauxhall replacement EGR or £100+ for the Fiat version.
Before reassembly of the EGR valve, I'm going to plug the solenoid part back into the loom and push the pressure switch in to see if that makes any difference to the EML light or flashing glow plug light.
Please I persevered with getting the valve free because it could have been so easy to have just cleaned out the crud and thinking job done without realising the valve was still stuck.
Next on the list is changing the glow plugs, attempting to clean out the MAP sensor and try the air pressure/ohm reading test on the MAP. Joys.
 
Here we are nearly 2 years down the line and I've had to re clean the EGR valve again, how be it adding 1,300 miles a month.
Bottom crank oil seal went again last September and that's where the motor and stood ever since (had to buy another car that I could rely on for my daily 60 mile work commute). Now the weather is warming up a bit thought I'd get my act together and get the Doblo running again. I thought no point doing the seal without investigating what was causing the back pressure that potentially is resulting in the seal failure. History of the seal failure is the first replacement lasted 18 months and approx. 20,000 miles. Second one lasted 3 days and 120 miles. Second one had blown back out of the recess (might have been my work man ship or engine back pressure). So I've replaced the seal and got the timing belt end all assembled and refitted. Decided to take the rocker cover off and check all the breathers and EGR valve for blockage. Breathers all seem clear but the EGR valve is solid again. Not sure if a blocked EGR valve would cause enough back pressure to push the crank oil seal out. Another issue is that the air filter had been blown outwards from the centre, slightly like a rugby ball shape. Again would a blocked EGR have a bearing on this? Whilst discussing the engine blow back, I have read the piston rings/piston chamber wear can cause engine blow by. But I'm not sure if this is happening because when running, the engine doesn't burn oil and the exhaust is clean as a whistle. Suppose the real thing to do is have a compression test done, but the motor needs to be running and knowing what a pig it is to get at the glow plugs, bet it's a right bar-steward to do on these JTD engines. Another thought is perhaps there's a part blockage in the exhaust system, maybe the Particulate Filter section in the exhaust line.
Anyhow back to topic, with the EGR valve off, and the electronic part removed, the pressure spring part was solid. Soaked it for a week in paraffin and no difference. Couldn't even budge it in a vice. Working in the print industry, I got hold of some ink stripper (Diemythanol mixture stuff with all the hazard warnings). 5 minute soak in this stuff and I could push the spring freely with finger pressure. Just goes to show how hard the carbon/soot crud solidifies to block the EGR valves up. So what I saying is when cleaning the EGR valve, peeps do indeed need to go the full monty and check the spring mechanism is free rather than just clean the central chamber out.
Going onto the contraversial blanking plates to block off the EGR valve, whilst doing the cleaning, I got to thinking that in reality is the blanked off plates acting the same as a blocked non functioning EGR valve? What do you guys think?
 
I purchased a replacement EGR valve,a tin of carburettor cleaner and a box of 100 rubber gloves from euro parts for £115, it took me 1 1/2h to strip clean out and install the new my 07 105hp Doblo now sweet again??
 
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