Hi all,
Take a look at this link. Its not in English, but translate useing google and look at pics.
http://www.alfisti.net/alfa-forum/a...spider-939/100038-agr-lahmlegen-so-gehts.html

Interesting

I think I worked out what it was about. You put a 15mm packer between the solenoid and the valve, so the pin doesn't reach and the valve never opens.

I suppose this has the same effect as completely sealing it off, which makes me think about the hole in the normal blanking washer. Presumably there is a reason for this hole - doesn't some error get triggered if there is no flow detected?

If this procedure works though, then you could achieve exactly the same by sawing off the pin - no accurate machining required.

Or, on second thoughts, does the 15mm mean that it "only just" reaches, so a bit of air goes through when the pin extends by more than 15mm? I don't know, just guessing.

Not sure how it works.Will try just splitting the valve and see if the dash light stays off first. Will post results.

flateric said:

Will try just splitting the valve and see if the dash light stays off first. Will post results.

Click to expand...

Hi there. Did you tried it yet ?!

Won't work on the Croma 16V engine as the ECU calculates EGR flow. On 8V older engines/ECUs than it will work ok. Note how in one picture the solenoid is left electrically connected and tie wrapped for support leaving the actual valve exposed but closed.

I posted a long while ago MY solution/mod for the Croma/other EGR.

Basically you blank off the EGR path from the exhuast at exhaust. Then you remove the feeder/cooler, or just disconnect it from the EGR inlet. Now you connect a new EGR inlet feed across the back of the engine to the air intake box OR a small cone air filter.

Now the EGR circuit picks up clean, soot free, cool and filtered air. Takes the crap and heat out of the circuit which is what damages the valve and clogs the inlet manifold and boost sensor.

This mod requires no ECU mapping changes, keeps the basic EGR circuit happy removes many of the factors attributing to EGR related failures.

s130 said:

Now the EGR circuit picks up clean, soot free, cool and filtered air. Takes the crap and heat out of the circuit which is what damages the valve and clogs the inlet manifold and boost sensor.

Click to expand...

Approximately how many miles you have with this mod?
Did you noticed any differences in acceleration, consumption and engine running temp ?
Thank you.

Roberto Blanco said:

Approximately how many miles you have with this mod?
Did you noticed any differences in acceleration, consumption and engine running temp ?
Thank you.

Click to expand...

Simple honest answer ZERO miles.

I fully researched and designed exactly what I was going to do ahead of when my EGR was to fail. Unfortunately it failed just before going on a 3000 mile round trip to Italy towing a caravan. I was thus forced to quicky buy a new EGR valve and I had already both swirl gaskets in stock.

But what my research and engineering logic tells me is this:

1) The EGR circuit indirectly measures air flow. It still gets this.
2) Cooler air intake via the EGR port increases charge density and thus will only have an improved effect on combustion. Seems stupid to me to have an intercooler only to feed raw hot exhaust gases (only slightly cooled via the water exchange cooler in the EGR circuit) back into the intake and thus increasing the temperature of the air from the intercooler.
3) No crappy soot being fed into the plenum chamber to clog it, the boost sensor and potentially gum up the swirl valves.

The engineering is sound IMHO but the implementation requires addressing these minor issues. I say minor as becuase they are but do require some fabrication to be done.

1) A new EGR inlet pipe need to be made OR the old one has to be cut and a tube attached.

2) Do you leave the existing EGR gas water cooler in situe or do you remove it and bypass the water flow? Part of the support for this coller comes from the pipe attachment to the EGR valve.

3) New filtered air feed. Take from main air box OR a separate cone small K&N / similar cone filter of the type you often get for dry sump lubricated engines. Critical point to not here is that the air feed MUST come from before the air flow meter otherwise the ECU algorith for calculating expected drop in main air flow due to EGR flow will be totally stuffed. Would be the same as just blanking off the EGR and we know that on the 16V Croma engine this throws a fault code/light a little way down the road.

My personal choice would probably be for a discrete cone filter as opposed to modifying the main air box. However the size of small cone filter may need increasing as the smaller ones may be more restrictive. Another disadvantage of a separate filter is that you now have TWO filters to tend to at service time.

Finally.... there is as always the dredded insurance question/notification where "has the car been modified?" is their catch all get out of liability question. On many policies "modified" is so open that putting fancy stripes/decals on your car or anything else (at their discretion) could be a serious issue.

With my current insurance company, and a few other companies I have tried they will not insure any cars with mods. All I was looking for was permision to do a DPF removal as for a Croma 2005 it is not an EU/UK legal requirement for EUROn or UK MOT.

The Fiat swirl / reducer gasket is NOT, and is easily a defensible and legitimate modification (or should I say change of part design) that any Fiat dealer could fit without telling you.

Sounds like a good plan, although I'm lost on some of the intricacies. It would be easy to take a feed from the air filter box, before the air flow sensor - it's only plastic and very accessible. I'd be worried about adding a second air filter - it would be likely to get neglected, especially after you sold the car.

I'd say take a sensible view about whether to tell the insurers. It would make no difference to performance, safety or stealability. Should I tell them about my uprated wiper rods or slightly non-standard battery? You have to draw a sensible line somewhere. We all know that they take a dim view of any mod, especially as they wouldn't know what you were talking about and would categorise it the same as if you had added a supercharger.

I take your sensible view about mods. From my investigations it comes down to three basic points:

1) has car performance etc. been increased ?
2) has the mod increased the risk to the insurer, e.g. car or wheels more desirable to be stolen or joy rided
3) has the ECU been reprogrammed.

Item 3 was the killer for wanting to remove my DPF filter and/or EGR valve? Didn't matter that there would be no real increase in performance and that the reliability and running costs of the vehicle would be substantially improved. Insurance companies now seem to have either a blanket "no ECU mods" policy or "fleece their wallet" policy.

In the case of a rerouted EGR intake I too would be quite happy to defend against this one were it to come down to that.

The intake from a moded air filter box is the sensible option but I would first buy another air filter top cover so I could restor the car to standard.

Unless I am missing something in translation that won't work on a turbo engine, as the intake is higher pressure than the air filter housing and when the EGR opens it will be dumping boost up into the air filter! This will show an increase on MAF, when the ECU will be looking for a decrease in MAF to monitor that the EGR is replacing intake air with exhaust and the system is functioning to spec. On a VW it goes from 450 to 250mg when the EGR openes at idle. It's a fair old flow. Greg.

Greg, you are absolutely correct in your observation. When I first investigated an EGR solution it was for a non turbo petrol or diesel engines and a long time ago. On the diesel engine it would reduce the crud being recirculted and both engines reduce the air intake temperature thus helping charge density associated with cooler air. I resurrected the idea when I got my Croma and had EGR issues. This just clearly shows how easy it is to lose the plot when you get older

Thanks for picking up on this and correcting me. (Slaps head with monkey wrench). Probably stuffed my normal good reputation for good now!

You can't take the clean air feed off the high pressure side either as the MAF reading will be the same regardless of EGR position.

Unfortunately I can't go back and update my post so hope people will see these follow-ups.

I've back tracked my posts and provided updates.

Would also like to thank Greg123 for his gentle post. He could had lambasted me, launched rockets at me etc., but did us all proud by highlighting/raising his observations in a professional manner. Prime example of sensible forum members participating in an appropriate way.