This is my first post so go easy please. Sorry it's on the long side but I wanted to get all relevant facts in.

My Croma is an 06 1.9 16v with 57.7k miles on it. The last service was at 54k as per the schedule and was carried out by an independent. I've had the car about 18 months with no issues.

About 6 weeks ago the 'Check engine' light came on and the car went into 'limp, or get me home, mode'. I pulled off into a service area, waited for an hour or so and tried again. The 'Check engine' light stayed on. I decided to make use of my RAC membership and get transported back home, approx 100 miles away. When the car was started to drive off the lowloader the 'Check engine' light did NOT stay on.

Then about 4 weeks ago the light came on again and stayed on after each engine start. I got this checked and was told that faults 2004 and 2013 had been logged (and now cleared). I was also advised to use a better quality diesel than Tesco regular so have used Shell VPower since then. The car seemed to be running fine and diesel consumption was normal.

About 3 weeks ago the 'Check engine' light came on again and stays on after each engine start. Again the car seemed to be running fine and diesel consumption was normal. Last week I bought an ELM327 v1.4 and downloaded FiatECUScan. When I checked yesterday (26th March) I had these faults logged:
P0401 - EGR device (2) Fatal: Engine Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient detected. The reason for this fault is that ECU has received very low signal from sensor. The fault is present now. Take appropriate action to fix this sensor fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault.
U1601 - C-CAN line error Stored: The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, ...
U0426 - Invalid Data from Vehicle Immo Ctrl Mod. Stored: The reason for this fault is that ECU did not receive signal from the sensor.The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, ....

I cleared the fault codes and made a couple of < 20 mile round trips. Unfortunately the 'Check engine' light came on again in the evening. So today I checked again and have the same P0401 fault logged.

Using FiatECUScan I checked a few parameters WITHOUT the engine running:
Odometer at last DPF replacement: 90,680 km (= 56675 miles) IT WASN'T CHANGED AT THE SERVICE.
Odometer at last regeneration: 31.4 km (Huh?)
Particle filter obstruction: 66.38%
Average distance in last 5 regenrations: 191 km (Very low?)
Last 5 regenerations average duration: 339 sec (About right?)
Odometer as last Oil Change: 23080.2 km (Not reset at last service?)
Distance to next Oil Change: 31,500 km
Oil Change Counter: 2 (Not reset at last service?)
Oil deterioration indicator: 63.00%
EGR Valve Opening: 4.00%
EGR control: OFF
Particle filter status: Normal clogging

With the engine running at various RPM between 750 and 2100 the EGR Valve Opening never shifted off 4%, the EGR control never changed from OFF, and the 'Particle filter obstruction' crept up to 67.00%

Not being an automotive engineer, I'm looking for confirmation of my interpretation of the above i.e.:
The Oil settings weren't reset at the last service. Could this impact the EGR and regenerations?
The EGR Valve just isn't opening - the solenoid could be stuck or there's no signal to it
DPF regenerations are no longer happening
The DPF is gradually getting clogged up
If I don't fix the problem soon I'll knacker the DPF

Is that right?

Not having the time/skill/patience to take the EGR valve off and clean it (I can see where it is but I'm not confident about removing/refitting), I intend to get the car in to my nearest Fiat dealer (Glyn Hopkin in Ipswich) to get the EGR issue fixed and also to get the oil changed and the ECU Oil settings reset. Does this seem like a sensible and reasonable thing to do?

Awaiting responses ...

WAM

No, do it yourself or get a small independent to do it. It's a simple job that doesn't require dealer hourly rates. First of all did your can have flat spots at low revs or no pulling power away from rest? This is a usual sign of a sticking EGR valve.

However, from your diagnostics it does suggest that the EGR valve is sticking. It is actually an easy job to do. If you lift the plastic covers off the engine it is easily accessible. Just unplug the connector (actually this was the hardest part) undo the two bolts and it's off. Takes 10 mins.

Before fitting a new one also get the gasket plate Fiat part no: 55225287. This plate helps to stop the valve sooting up gain in the future. It is only a fiver from FIAT dealers.

After-market valves retail at around £120 (it is the same as the 16v Vectra/Signum) although I got one off ebay for £45. When ordering the part ensure you get the one for the 16v engine - the 8v is different.

Thanks Radlet6. I've read some of your other posts on EGR problems.

I thought someone would chip in with that. How about I compromise and get it booked in to the Fiat dealership, which will probably not be until the week beginning 4th April, but in the meantime I take the EGR valve off and dismantle and clean it. If that fixes the problem I'll just cancel the booking

I'd still like anybody's views on whether DPF regeneration is actually happening now and also on whether 191 km is a very short average distance between each of the last 5 regenerations. In fact, how do I tell if regenerations are happening?
The value of 32.4 km reported by FiatECUScan for 'Odometer at last regeneration' just seems plain wrong. Anyone got an explanation?

And that still leaves the problem of the Oil values not having been reset at the last service. I couldn't find out how to do those resets in the FiatECUScan forums - any clues on that? I assume I need to buy a licence (which I was intending to do anyway to save the £90 for each service interval reset that Fiat charge!)

WAM

Sorry forgot to say. I think S130 mentions on another thread that if the oil service indicator isn't reset then the DPF won't regenerate.

I think Doofer mentions that it is easy to spot when regens are happening as the MPG drops dramatically (using the instantaneous MPG reading). I have noticed that too, especially on a dual carriageway; I will struggle to get more than 37-38 mpg during a regen cycle. As soon as it's over it's straight back to the mid to high 40's.

Oh and welcome to the forum.

S130 coming late to the party as usual

Not sure where to start, lots of questions and data to answer.

First of all....FiatECUScan and Oil Change Reset. This function was available in V1.6 as a free function (last free version). Post V1.6 the Service/Oil reset functions were only available in the Purchased & Registered version.

DPF Regen & Oil Change: Provided your Oil Change Light (blinking oil light) is not complaining then DPF regeneration should still be taking place. Once an oil change is warned then I don't know how far/long one can drive after that BUT it would be plainly stupid to DPF regens to cease the moment the light flashes. The reason the regens will eventually stop is that the ECU programming deems that the oil is/will be of insufficient quality to protect the engine from the excessive temperatures and stresses experienced during regeneration cycles.

Thanks for the welcome.

So I also need to get the oil service indication sorted out too. As I said, I'm not an auto engineer so apologies if this is officially 'a daft question' but ... isn't the lack of DPF regenerations a 'bad thing' for the filter. And couldn't it result in requiring a filter replacement ( = expensive?).

I'll do some searches about how to do the indicator reset in FiatECUScan.

WAM

Re: rest of your FiatECUScan readings - I've not checked mine in a while and certainly not with the latest version so I can't really say too much.

One thing I would say is that, depending on the 'module' there can be discrepancies in mileages recorded by ECU, ABS, Instument Cluster Odometer etc. This along with other items are know issues oddeties with FiatECUSan.

So you quoted: xxyy I respond **abcd**

Odometer at last DPF replacement: 90,680 km (= 56675 miles) IT WASN'T CHANGED AT THE SERVICE. **PASS**

Odometer at last regeneration: 31.4 km (Huh?) **PASS**

Particle filter obstruction: 66.38% **looks typical**

Average distance in last 5 regenrations: 191 km (Very low?) **looks about right**

Last 5 regenerations average duration: 339 sec (About right?) **looks about right**

Odometer as last Oil Change: 23080.2 km (Not reset at last service?) **possibly**

Distance to next Oil Change: 31,500 km **sounds about right - At 23,500 miles I had a dealer service then at 36,800 miles I did the service myself and FiatECUScan changed the Next Change Oil from 17,500km to 50,000km. This suggests the onboard oil change algorithm is very conservative when the car is driven normally **

Oil Change Counter: 2 (Not reset at last service?) ** can't comment for sure**

Oil deterioration indicator: 63.00% ** Warning! this reads in reverse. 100% is 100% good and no deterioration and will be the value after an oil change reset. Deterioration is misleading. Mine went from 35% to 100% when I changed the oil and reset**

EGR Valve Opening: 4.00% **can't remeber exactly how this all works but 4% is a typical value. I think this displayed value is the target EGR level the ECU is hoping to achieve overall and not and actual *now* figure.**

EGR control: OFF **valve not currently activated---I think **

Particle filter status: Normal clogging **as described**

Hope this helps

The text in FiatECUScan is not correct maybe because it is a translation from Italian to . . .

From the my information I would say:
Odometer at last DPF replacement should read: Odometer at last regeneration
yours: 90680 - My results: 84130 km

Odometer at last regeneration should read: since last reg.
yours: 31,4 - my results: 198 km

Obstruction
yours: 66.38 - my results: 38.28 %

Varies between 22 - 88%

Your result is very high maybe the regeneration wasn't completely finished when the engine was stopped.

Last 5 regenerations
yours 191 km - my results: 969 km
Varies between 600 and 1300 km depending short trips or long distances.
191 km is very short!!!

Except for the Oil change counter (y: 2 - m:7) the values are the same.

I think a service reset is not needed at the moment.
A good regeneration is necessary and a repair of the ERG-valve.

Sorry for my broken English.

Thanks s130 and Crombel. As you can tell, I'm new to this and want to make sure that I've got the interdepenencies right i.e what situation is causing what issues.

For example, does the ECU pick up that it has the oil as last being changed at 23080 km and hence stop doing DPF regenerations? Or will the ECU do a DPF regeneration once the 'Particle filter obstruction' reaches a high enough percentage (88%)? Or can I force a regeneration by driving in any particular way?

So many questions.

I'll try and do the EGR valve clean up this evening and report back later this week. Thanks.

Don't care about the 23080 km, that figure is not correct.
Only the "Distance to next oil change" is important.

The "oil change counter: 2" could mean that the service hasn't been reset some time ago, which could have resulted in regenerations haven't occurred for some time. This could have damaged the DPF.
I would drive the car and regularly check it with FiatECUScan to see what are the values of "Particle filter obstruction" before and after regeneration.

The ECU will do a regeneration as it has done 31.4 km ago.
You cannot force a regeneration it just occurs.
Always drive with "current fuel consumption" on the screen and when the figure is high at normal driving the reg. takes place. It takes about 10 minutes.

Maybe it is worthwhile to buy FiatECUScan if you want to keep the car for some time. It has a function to force regeneration.

I go with Crombel has said.

Would also add that my earlier responses re: distance since last regen and obstruction % might have been a little off the mark. 6x% obstruction is not a problem however I missed the 3x km since last regen. Having said this I'm struggling to remember if the %clogging is like the oil % where 100% is actually 100% unclogged and 10% would be very clogged. I think Crombel has this the correct way round but until I read my car again with FiatECUScan just after a regen I'm sitting on the fence.

Regarding the 'Particle filter obstruction' percentage, this crept up while monitoring the idling engine with FiatECUScan (free version). So I reckon that it does show an actual obstruction percentage rather than an unobstruction percentage.

I took the EGR valve off my Croma tonight. By the way, the gasket underneath managed to drop down through to the engine tray so be warned if you're thinking of checking your valve. I had to jack the car up to retrieve it. BTW, the part number of the EGR valve assembly on mine is 55194735.

Once I'd undone the 4 Torx bolts/screws to separate the solenoid housing from the body (the bit with the actual valve in) I could see that the insides were pretty caked up (pictures below).



I cleaned out as much soot as possible from the main body using just gentle scrapping and a rag. I then tried to remove the actual solenoid by drilling a small hole in the end of the plastic housing and gently tapping out the solenoid parts (as per the EGRcleaning1.pdf I downloaded from these forums). Gentle tapping didn't work; neither did slightly more aggresive hitting so I stopped there. The small solenoid plunger was pushed out further by the tapping/hitting and I could then tap it back in until it stood about 5mm proud. I am able to push the plunger in by hand but it doesn't feel as though it's smooth. I have to push hard to get it to move inwards but once on the move it depresses ok. Is this to be expected?



What I want to check before I put it back on is whether the following is ok. If I put the two halves of the valve back together by hand the solenoid plunger is stiffer than the spring on the valve itself so that when the two faces are together the valve is already open by about 2 - 3 mm. Should it be like this?

I stupidly didn't note or photograph how the actual valve was sitting when I separated the two halves of the body.

Oh, and must I use gasket sealant when refitting the EGR valve to the manifold, or can I get away without if it's looking like I'll need a new EGR valve? If I do, is there a specific one recommended?

It's not a cost issue, it's a convenience one. I don't have any in the garage and I'm a 30 mile round trip away from the nearest stockist. One of the pleasures of living in a rural location.

Hi WAM

Here is the info I've gathered on the EGR valve. I suggest you get the Pierburg valve (I've listed 3 suppliers below) and the Fiat bullet plate gasket (55225287). Fiat Dealers Desira (Diss Norfolk) do a mail order service. Buy a couple of gaskets if i were you.

The EGR valve is also available (cheaper than Fiat) from GM/Vauxhal dealers.

EGR Valve
---------
Part Number Changes:
07/2004 P/N: 46823850
10/2005 P/N: 55194735
04/2008 P/N: 55204250
/2009 P/N: 55215031 -> This is also latest Pierburg P/N: 7.000.63.10.0

Pierburg P/N: 7.000.63.10.0 replaces ALL the above part numbers
(sub details on valve purchased on Sept 2010
Manf.Date: 23 FEB 2010
Main P/N:7.000.63.10.0
Solenoid P/N:5.00240.05 10T035
Casing P/N:55215031 - Fiat P/N
Valve Casing P/N: 7.00063.11
P/N: B004.0033A )

EGR Valve Gaskets.

Inlet gasket is P/N:46773082
Outlet gasket is P/N:55191883 (original)
Outlet gasket is P/N:55225287 (new bullet hole gasket - integral silicone seal)
Outlet gasket is P/N:71751468 (new alternative bullet hole gasket - more expensive than 55225287 and does NOT have silicon seal)

Pierburg valve available from: (and other motor factors)
Emission Controls (www.emissioncontrols.co.uk) Tel.020 8462 2543
RS Engine Supplies Tel.01233 661458
Kimber Friction, Soton

Was going to add that the "throw" on the solenoid is only about 3mm. It is not a long throw device. In your picture where the pin is only a little proud of the casing is the actual "out"/"on" position. When you assembly the solenoid to the valve body this pin will be depressed flush. You can test the strength of the solenoid by manually pushing the pin back flush and then us a 12V suppply to energise the solenoid. I should have quite a punch to it.

After cleaning the valve body (I soaked mine in diesel full) you need to manually operate the valve and ensure that it travels ok. The give is a good WD40 flushing and lube.

A new Pierburg valve will/should come with a gaskets in the box. These will be the old full sized gaskets which you will see are 'crush fit' sealing gaskets. (Has half round lip.ridge around the edges. Old removed gaskets will require some sealant on them to ensure a gas tight seal.

Cheers s130. I've been looking at the possibility of a new valve so all your information is much appreciated.

I'd still like to try the current one back on the car though and one thing you wrote -

When you assembly the solenoid to the valve body this pin will be depressed flush

Click to expand...

- still concerns me.

On the bench if I just manually hold the solenoid half against the valve body then it's the valve spring that depresses first and opens the valve rather than the solenoid spring. That doesn't seem to tie up with what you wrote.

Are you saying that when off the car, the solenoid is 'thrown' and therefore the pin will be a few millimeters proud but when refitted on the car the solenoid pin is retracted flush? That doesn't sound right to me.

Hmmmm, you have got me thinking now.

I'm stuggling to remember. I could be 180 degrees out of phase. i.e when energised the plunger is pulled fully in.

You have FiatECUScan I think and in the free version under Actuators you can activate the EGR valve. Reconnect the solenoid and run the test and see what happens.

Easy to do and whatch and feel the plunger. Connect the valve body and watch again.

Sorry if I'm being sometimes vague but my memory for soem of this stuff is not as good as it used to be. I'm nearly 100% on the Strada Abarth but the Croma is relatively new to my memory banks.

Ah, good thinking. Yes I can use the free version of FiatECUScan to try to actuate the valve. That won't be until tomorrow evening now so will let you all know on Thursday.

Thanks again for your help.

OK, well I tried using the free version of FiatECUScan to actuate the EGR solenoid, with the help of my 13 year old daughter, and absolutely nothing happened. This was with the ignition ON only, not with the engine running.

The ECU did log P0403 errors whenever it detected that the EGR solenoid was not plugged in so I reckon that meant the wiring was not faulty.

As a check, I put 12V across the EGR solenoid contacts and still nothing. To me this means that the solenoid is stuffed. Anyone else agree/disagree?

Because I need to use the car tomorrow evening I reassembled the EGR valve and put it back on the car regardless. I then used FIatECUScan to clear fault codes and then monitored 'EGR Valve Opening' with the engine running. Initially it was 4%. After 2 or 3 minutes I blipped the throttle for a few seconds and surprisingly the 'EGR Valve Opening' reading shot up to 95% and then dropped through 65% back to 4%. Monitoring was every 2 seconds. I couldn't get it to shift off 4% over the next 5 minutes.

So what does this mean? Anyone know how the 'EGR Valve Opening' percentage is calculated? If the solenoid is either activated or not then surely the actual valve is either open or closed. Basically I'm trying to work out whether I do need a new EGR valve or not !!

At the end of the evening, but without driving the car anywhere, the 'Check engine' light has stayed off. I'll post an update if it comes back on again.