My Croma 2.4JTD was recently suffering from the following symptoms:-

1. A 'Surging' sensation on medium acceleration

2. A 'cough' at about 1800RPM

3. Uneven running at 55-60MPH.

4. Uneven or 'lumpy' idle.

This all started after two tankfuls of supermarket diesel, might be unrelated but I'll not be taking the chance in future! I removed the nuts holding the coolant reservoir in place, moved it to one side and removed the two nuts holding the heatshield over the EGR valve. Disconnected the electrical plug and the two bolts holding the pipe on the bottom of the valve.

Removed the four mounting bolts and removed the valve. When the valve was off, I removed the six (I think?) torx bolts holding the electrical part of the valve to the mechanical part and all became clear - when the valve was manually operated it was sticking at the initial point of operation.

Used copious amounts of carburettor cleaner on the mechanical part of the valve and it cleaned up well; more importantly it was now smooth in operation throughout the range. Reassembled it all without incident and the car is now back to normal - all the above symptoms have gone. Total time taken was about ninety minutes.

When I did the above the car had done just over 31,000 miles, it has since covered another 2000 miles without any problems. I'm not guaranteeing this will fix all running problems but if your car has similar issues to the ones mine had then it might be worth a go - at £7 for carb cleaner it's not too much of a risk.

HTH.

DoIDon'tI said:

My Croma 2.4JTD was recently suffering from the following symptoms:-

1. A 'Surging' sensation on medium acceleration

2. A 'cough' at about 1800RPM

3. Uneven running at 55-60MPH.

4. Uneven or 'lumpy' idle.

This all started after two tankfuls of supermarket diesel, might be unrelated but I'll not be taking the chance in future! I removed the nuts holding the coolant reservoir in place, moved it to one side and removed the two nuts holding the heatshield over the EGR valve. Disconnected the electrical plug and the two bolts holding the pipe on the bottom of the valve.

Removed the four mounting bolts and removed the valve. When the valve was off, I removed the six (I think?) torx bolts holding the electrical part of the valve to the mechanical part and all became clear - when the valve was manually operated it was sticking at the initial point of operation.

Used copious amounts of carburettor cleaner on the mechanical part of the valve and it cleaned up well; more importantly it was now smooth in operation throughout the range. Reassembled it all without incident and the car is now back to normal - all the above symptoms have gone. Total time taken was about ninety minutes.

When I did the above the car had done just over 31,000 miles, it has since covered another 2000 miles without any problems. I'm not guaranteeing this will fix all running problems but if your car has similar issues to the ones mine had then it might be worth a go - at £7 for carb cleaner it's not too much of a risk.

HTH.

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I have not had any of the above problems after 68,000 miles. Are you following the servicing schedule with consumables?? If so then this is where your root cause is coming from.

I noticed on the Alfa Owners forum various issues, where owners of a multijet engine are still having there scheduled services etc, but are having consumables changed a lot earlier than the handbook says. For example since since my Croma was one year old, its had the following done every 12 months without question:

Renewed Fuel Filter.
Renewed Pollen Filter.
Renewed Air Filter.

The oil gets changed, flushed and recharged with new filter every 6 months.

Since owners with Multijet engines in either a Fiat or Alfa or a Saab 9-3 for that matter, changing consumables earlier improves condition of engine over a period of time and the type of driving that you do. But if I have those issues ocurring on mine, I will adopt your procedure. Thanks

The EGR is exhaust recirculation. More likely to get blocked on heavy traffic usage. Fuel quality may be an issue, but less likely. In 170000 miles over 11 years in Fiat diesels I have not experienced EGR faults.
Thanks for description of the EGR service routine.

FiatFleetFamily said:

I have not had any of the above problems after 68,000 miles. Are you following the servicing schedule with consumables?? If so then this is where your root cause is coming from.

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First service was carried out at 13,100 miles. Oil and filter changed at 20,000 and 28,000 miles. Second service was carried out a year and just under 18000 miles after the first, all using genuine components. I can't vouch for the first 13,725 miles of the car's life but as my average journey consists of 33 miles at an average of 50 mph I wouldn't count that as heavy traffic usage.

Please bear in mind my post was meant to provide help for any owners who might experience these problems, not everyone. Your car might run to 250,000 miles with perfect wheel alignment, no suspension wear issues, no water pump failure, EGR valve or DPF issues and never have a warning light come on but some people will not be so lucky; I thought the point of a forum was to provide help for such people, hence my post.

You don't have to defend Fiat or the Croma - a lot of modern diesels have problems related to emissions equipment, it isn't unusual and isn't necessarily anyone's fault. I may have caused the problem by not driving the car hard enough but if I say that, someone will say the car should be capable of handling all driving conditions!

I don't agree with that sentiment and believe that if I have to do an hour's work every couple of years to clean out an EGR valve then that is an acceptable trade-off for increased powertrain life and reduced fuel consumption. Most instances of 'hesitation' on the Alfa forum involve the 2.4 engine so it may be the case that the 2.4 doesn't have to work as hard as the 1.9 so it clogs up more easily as it's not getting as hot.

Apologies for the rant, I'm just fed up with the automatic assumption that everything must be the owner's fault and they must have done something to cause the fault. I've been driving for over twenty years and fixing aircraft engines (piston and turbine) for a similar time so might just know something...

And I'm sensitive

Posted elsewhere in this Forum that I think EGR cleaning should be part of the major service as the clogging and symptoms are common and well known.

Driving style and fuel quality ARE contributors to this however, as is the basic design (flawed in the case of Fiats) It would be interesting to see how many Fiat owners never have an EGR issue though. Incidentally if the EGR fails closed it can fluck up the turbo... due to heat build up.

DoIDon'tI said:

First service was carried out at 13,100 miles. Oil and filter changed at 20,000 and 28,000 miles. Second service was carried out a year and just under 18000 miles after the first, all using genuine components. I can't vouch for the first 13,725 miles of the car's life but as my average journey consists of 33 miles at an average of 50 mph I wouldn't count that as heavy traffic usage.

Please bear in mind my post was meant to provide help for any owners who might experience these problems, not everyone. Your car might run to 250,000 miles with perfect wheel alignment, no suspension wear issues, no water pump failure, EGR valve or DPF issues and never have a warning light come on but some people will not be so lucky; I thought the point of a forum was to provide help for such people, hence my post.

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I did say at the end of my post that I will adopt it if I would have an issue with mine. But for the record 18,000 miles for the filters to be changed is way too long!!!!!!!!!!!!! But hey its your car and you will do the best with it as I assume that you are an Engineer just like me I play with marine bone crunchers!!

FiatFleetFamily said:

For example since since my Croma was one year old, its had the following done every 12 months without question:

Renewed Fuel Filter.
Renewed Pollen Filter.
Renewed Air Filter.


But for the record 18,000 miles for the filters to be changed is way too long!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I do 21-22,000 miles a year so 18,000 miles = <12 months :chin:

Not living in a sandy / dusty environment and not being used for taxi work (the car, not me), I reckon* 18,000 should be OK - certainly the last filters I changed weren't on their last legs by any means IMO. The 2.4 fuel filter has a water sensor in it (hence the extortionate price) so I reckon* that'll go to 36,000 as per the Fiat service schedule providing no warnings appear.

Which reminds me - sorry to digress - but is the 1.9 fuel filter the same as the 2.4 (i.e. two quick-release pipes & bleed point on top, water sensor on the bottom)? It's just that on my version of ePer the part numbers are wrong so the filter I bought doesn't fit - which is nice.

The air filter is different to the 1.9 so at the minute I've got to go to Fiat to get one, it'll be nice (i.e. cheaper) when Mahle etc start doing aftermarket parts for the 2.4 - serves me right for buying a rare car I suppose...


















* Views expressed in this post are the author's opinion only and do not constitute a statement of fact. Fiat Auto(UK) cannot be held responsible for the contents of this post or liable for any damage caused by following its content. There, that should clear things up.

Just for your information.

Fram do air filters, pollen filters and fuel filter elements for the 2.4 Multijet as well as the 1.9 Multijet.

Just as a note to by previous post, I did a post 3 weeks ago about consumable spares and who is doing them, so that you know who to ask for.

FiatFleetFamily said:

Just as a note to by previous post, I did a post 3 weeks ago about consumable spares and who is doing them, so that you know who to ask for.

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Oh yes, I do remember reading that but didn't know when Fram was going to start making them. I've just changed them all so by the time they come round again my local motor factors will hopefully be able to get them.

As an aside, do you know anything about the fuel filter query I mentioned above? Thanks.

Did you have to replace any gaskets for the EGR valve service?

They both looked fine to me (one's metal and the other was unmarked) and didn't leak afterwards but I'd be tempted to replace them both next time I take it off just to be sure.

Not sure about fuel filter. You don't need to change the casing, just the element as its a lot cheaper. The 5 cylinder JTD 2.4 was made for the ALFA 156, 159 and Croma and 166 ( Left hand Drive only ). I would cross reference it with Alfa part numbers.

The Mahl and Fram elements I have are only for 120hp and 150hp 1.9's. But I am sure that the 2.4 would have a Fram unit as well

But before I got a Fram element ( As they were not available ) I got an element from shop4parts.co.uk . they had up tp date part numbers and cross referenced it.

Guys I do not know if related, it may well be rubbish, but I am told that a good way to prolong the life of a diesel while keeping it running smoothly, is to add some solvent with the fuel.

Those who claim that, insist that the solvent will help maintain fuel supply pipes clean from paraffin and whatever else.

As I said I have no idea if this stands true, would be obliged if you could enlighten me on that.

In older diesels this is true, in fact the common way to do it was to add some petrol occasionally. With the advent of catalysts, DPFs and common rail fuel systems running at 1600 Bar, there is a real need to be very careful what goes in your tank.

As an example, my car runs differently on Shell / BP fuel than on supermarket fuel. By all means occasionally use an additive suitable for use with DPFs but I'd view anything else with suspicion. My opinion of course, I'm naturally reluctant to do anything that I believe might cause expensive damage.

HTH.

DoIDon'tI said:

In older diesels this is true, in fact the common way to do it was to add some petrol occasionally. With the advent of catalysts, DPFs and common rail fuel systems running at 1600 Bar, there is a real need to be very careful what goes in your tank.

As an example, my car runs differently on Shell / BP fuel than on supermarket fuel. By all means occasionally use an additive suitable for use with DPFs but I'd view anything else with suspicion. My opinion of course, I'm naturally reluctant to do anything that I believe might cause expensive damage.

HTH.

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You have valid pints about modern diesel engines. Prior to recent times diesel engines would burn most oil bases fuels and mixtures with no ill effects. With Euro 4 now in effect and Euro 5 for diesels in the future the required addition of DPF and goodness knows what other technology makes correct fuelling an ever more critical factor in ownership and running costs.

What could appear to be 'good' now could cause damage and long term expense in the future.

This technological precise curve will get worse in years to come and our ability to deviate without cost will be next to zero. This in many cases is potentially a good thing, however, as we all know politicans and beurocrats actually have absolutely no clue.

This is currently an issue with the current car scrappage scheme where there is more environmental damage being done by scrapping some vehicles as opposed to leaving them on the roead till their natural death.

Absolutely - I was considering buying the kit that turns waste cooking oil into inro diesel but was advised against it for the Croma (in fact any high performance diesel engine) for all the reasons you've just mentioned.

In another 10 or 20 years we'll all be in electric motor vehicles, with performance to match the best of modern petrol and diesel fuels.

Now I can see the vehicle's charging circuit and plug exchanging data with the recharge point and again some government dip stick introducing regulations of when, where and how often you can recharge your vehicle. AND if you go over a certain kWH threshold you will be charge extra and even denied recharging and then having to pay to be towed home. (which of course uses even more energy than allowing you to charge up and return under you own power).

Best bet is to put a steam engine in your car and burn the junk email, newspapers and circulars that we don't want but can't stop. Infact burn the lot.

Me, bitter and twisted? Only on some sensitive matters.

I've had this with my Croma since it was new back in March 07 and it still does it.

It seemed to be fixed afetr every trip to the dealer (and it's had many many of those) only to recur a few weeks later.

Guess I've learned to live with it now and can't wait till I can afford to replace it with something that's not a Fiat.

DoIDon'tI said:

My Croma 2.4JTD was recently suffering from the following symptoms:-

1. A 'Surging' sensation on medium acceleration

2. A 'cough' at about 1800RPM

3. Uneven running at 55-60MPH.

4. Uneven or 'lumpy' idle.

This all started after two tankfuls of supermarket diesel, might be unrelated but I'll not be taking the chance in future! I removed the nuts holding the coolant reservoir in place, moved it to one side and removed the two nuts holding the heatshield over the EGR valve. Disconnected the electrical plug and the two bolts holding the pipe on the bottom of the valve.

Removed the four mounting bolts and removed the valve. When the valve was off, I removed the six (I think?) torx bolts holding the electrical part of the valve to the mechanical part and all became clear - when the valve was manually operated it was sticking at the initial point of operation.

Used copious amounts of carburettor cleaner on the mechanical part of the valve and it cleaned up well; more importantly it was now smooth in operation throughout the range. Reassembled it all without incident and the car is now back to normal - all the above symptoms have gone. Total time taken was about ninety minutes.

When I did the above the car had done just over 31,000 miles, it has since covered another 2000 miles without any problems. I'm not guaranteeing this will fix all running problems but if your car has similar issues to the ones mine had then it might be worth a go - at £7 for carb cleaner it's not too much of a risk.

HTH.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your post DoIDon'tI.
Mine 1.9 8v Multijet had similar things going on (uneven running happened as well at speed of approximately 30mph -from time to time- when driven in town) just recently. Amber Check Engine light came up on dashboard and with it all the bad things disappeared. Amber light stays on,but engine runs smoothly on any speed, acceleration is as supposed to, and idle is normal. To rid off the Check Engine light I have cleaned Boost Sensor (it was well clogged with all the muck), that didn't change anything, after reading your post It will give a EGR valve a go and try to take it off and clean it up. Hopefully it will work.