Tuning 172 bhp without a remap - is this possible?

[lyubohar]

Hey. Thought I never made a "baseline" test of my Tjet 150 Bravo without the TMC box enabled, so I did it yesterday.

The results were ranging, starting from about 155 hp, but the two maximum achieved were:
1) 128.5 kW @ 6012 rpm, 208.4 nm (on second gear)
2) 125.5 kw @ 5290 rpm, 227.9 nm (on third gear)

This means 172 bhp!

Does that sound possible to you, having in mind my TMC box was not plugged in? Granted, the car has Ragazzon exhaust system (middle and end pipes) and recently cleaned K&N sport filter. Also, I drive it with 100 octane petrol and the car was with the sticky winter tires.

But still, looks a bit too much...Even if we assume it has been around the 160 hp mark completely stock, which is not unusual for that engine, 12 hp from simple intake and exhaust mods and fuel?

The test was made with my G-Tech, in which I have (or had, until now) full confidence. It was used on several cars (and mine on other occasions) and always showed realistic results. Which doesn't mean it couldn't go kaput...

Discuss

 

[aurick86]

1. the t-jet should have 150bhp at the crank.
2. they measured at the wheels.
3 they should have set a drive-train loss (it is used to calculate the hp at the crank tho measured at the wheels).

So it's either they dyno is totally out, either they set the drive train losses to something negative resulting in even more power than actually produced. .

I understand it's breathing easier, but that doesn't mean it's processing more air. Even if the car would produce stock more that the claimed 150, for that kind of power you would need at least some increase in turbo pressure, fuel, timing.

 

[KillaChez]

Dyno in 2nd gear ? Lol

You need to find the gear which is closest to 1:1 drive , this is usally 4th in most 6 speeds.

In my old car 5th was closer to 1:1 but i road tuned it in 4th as 110mph is quick enough.

 

[lyubohar]

Did you even read my post? Car hasn't been dynoed. Gtech is not a dyno, google it if you need, but please don't improvise on info I haven't even supplied.

And yes, all losses are taken into account already. You can just work with the figure I've given as "power at the engine", which is the comparable figure to the factory stated power of 150 bhp.

 

[Tad-bravo]

Those G-tech are advirtised as accurate.. but that doesn't mean they are.
For starters you have to be in a very controlled environment and set the parameters of you car very accurately into the software.

There must be 0 wind, 0 down or up slope, 100% accurate weight input, 100% accurate tire info and inflation, 100% accurate speed ratio or whatever other technical data you have to input manually..

going back to your original question, bravos power is understated by fiat, it's a very efficient turbo engine and they had to understate its power to market it as a cheap to insure and tax car on many markets. so yes the car is most certainly more powerful than 150bhp stock.

engines also get different power output from factory for random manufacturing reasons, so if yours really has 170 bhp, then you got one of the good ones.

 

[KillaChez]

I read it alrite , i take its some kind of virtual dyno and you data log to get results ?

either way 2nd gear is a big no no for reasons i stated earlier.

 

[Tad-bravo]

I read it alrite , i take its some kind of virtual dyno and you data log to get results ?

either way 2nd gear is a big no no for reasons i stated earlier.

that kind of GPS dyno is done with either second or third gear only, it's nothing like the real dyno procedure.

 

[lyubohar]

I know my Gtech may not be accurate. Even though, as I said, it has been tried many times and showed results comparable with factory numbers and dynoes.

But my question was not "is my method of testing accurate". My question is: is that power with that upgrades theoretically possible?

 

[lyubohar]

engines also get different power output from factory for random manufacturing reasons, so if yours really has 170 bhp, then you got one of the good ones.

But still, none of the cars around has ever made 170+ stock, even the Mjets 150. I am following the dyno tests closely. So either I am extremely lucky, or the breathing upgrades are making some difference, or my gtech is out of calibration...

By the way the input info in the gtech is very accurate. Weight was checked several times on industrial grade scales, all the other info is there too - frontal area, aerodynamic resistance, etc. Road level is calculated by the gtech itself. Mind you "real" dynos don't take this same info into account at all, since there is no actual movement. Then you get your car and drive it in conditions (air resistance, etc.) which were never taken into account when the dyno test was made. But don't want to argue about that now...

 

[Tad-bravo]

I remember seeing someone posting real dyno sheets of a 150bhp stock that showed around the same figures as yours when the sport button was activated.

but then again, even real dynos are almost never perfectly accurate.

 

[lyubohar]

They are certainly less accurate, plenty of tests around the web
Anyway, will search again for that specific dyno test...thx

 

[JackFi]

I think it's very possible with the mods you have done. My Bravo made 174bhp on a RR standard with just a decat & relocated air filter.