FR85 said:

Update:
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Have had contact with my guy here in Ireland and hes found the pump kit! I have the pump out and my jesus on high was that a job, the rear bolt was moulded in there, I thought I was going to be getting the bottles and adding heat but it's out anyway and sure enough its "bearing'y" sounding and feeling. I have another with a broken fan and they are like chalk and cheese from a feel point of view
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Gav

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Couldn't you have simply swapped the fans and used the pump with the better bearings? or am I missing something?

Talking of 600D and 850, don't forget these models were sold in Spain as the SEAT 600 and 850 (also sometimes with significant differences e.g. SEAT 133) and many other countries e.g. iirc Turkey, Egypt. My point being a hint:- if on holidays in any of these countries, check around to see what new/used parts are available as in some of these countries, these models continued being produced long after they were dropped elsewhere in Europe. From what I've heard, Italy has become very dear for both old cars and their parts, Spain is more reasonable and realistic as to values and Turkey and Egypt (both had local assembly operations) can/will sell you a surprising amount of new spares for relatively small money

Just a thought,

Al.

F123C said:

Couldn't you have simply swapped the fans and used the pump with the better bearings? or am I missing something?

Talking of 600D and 850, don't forget these models were sold in Spain as the SEAT 600 and 850 (also sometimes with significant differences e.g. SEAT 133) and many other countries e.g. iirc Turkey, Egypt. My point being a hint:- if on holidays in any of these countries, check around to see what new/used parts are available as in some of these countries, these models continued being produced long after they were dropped elsewhere in Europe. From what I've heard, Italy has become very dear for both old cars and their parts, Spain is more reasonable and realistic as to values and Turkey and Egypt (both had local assembly operations) can/will sell you a surprising amount of new spares for relatively small money

Just a thought,

Al.

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Morning Al,

On the water pump I could have done a swap but I just said do it right and do it once. I don't know the history of the second pump. Figured this way I'll never need to look at it again all going well. The bypass port on the second were badly blocked and the Male connection for want of a term looked very corroded and brittle, I don't know if it would have taken a pipe clamp.

600, I have been looking under Jagst, Zastava, Seat ect for parts and from research a lot of the licensed copies were built mostly with suicide doors which my 600 does not have, it has front hinged doors.
Other parts yes but doors seems to be a tricky one. The two I bought the seller wouldn't split up so it was take them or leave them. Shipping from much further then Italy also I think poses problems such as shipping costs and duty, I mainly have to shop within the EU or be faced with possible import charges on top.
Gav

Hi Gavin,

Probably better that you've decided to overhaul you existing pump, (Do it right, Do it once, as they say) and as you say, some parts of the other pump were dodgy and it's condition unknown.

That's a good point you make about the continued use of suicide doors in some markets, they didn't feel the need to upgrade to the later model's 'normal' doors. While this is to your disadvantage it's an advantage to owner's of suicide model cars over here, whose doors may be in very poor condition having had even longer to rust here than those fitted to cars which retained suicide doors in some foreign markets.

I assume you're aware of the existance of www. fdricambi.com , (they're in the NL, so within the E.U.), I see they have a Fiat 600 new RH door for Euro 627 and s/hand Rh and LH doors at Euro 340 each. I trust you got your 2 doors cheaper? Iirc the Fiat 600 when new cost less than the price of 1 new door nowadays - progress eh?

As I'm in Ireland also, I'm aware of carriage costs and the possibility of incurring import duties etc. I heard of someone importing parts from one of the Spanish?(iirc) Islands, possibly Majorca? who got caught for import duty, apparently, these Islands are Spanish owned but are not part of the E.U.

I'm just waiting to see how much prices of all that we in Ireland import from the U.K. or via the U.K. change after Brexit.

Al.

F123C said:

Hi Gavin,

Probably better that you've decided to overhaul you existing pump, (Do it right, Do it once, as they say) and as you say, some parts of the other pump were dodgy and it's condition unknown.

That's a good point you make about the continued use of suicide doors in some markets, they didn't feel the need to upgrade to the later model's 'normal' doors. While this is to your disadvantage it's an advantage to owner's of suicide model cars over here, whose doors may be in very poor condition having had even longer to rust here than those fitted to cars which retained suicide doors in some foreign markets.

I assume you're aware of the existance of www. fdricambi.com , I see they have Fiat 600 new RH door for Euro 627 and s/hand Rh and LH doors at Euro 340 each. I trust you got your 2 doors cheaper? Iirc the Fiat 600 when new cost less than the price of 1 new door nowadays - progress eh?

As I'm in Ireland also, I'm aware of carriage costs and the possibility of incurring import duties etc. I heard of someone importing parts from one of the Spanish?(iirc) Islands, possibly Majorca? who got caught for import duty, apparently, these Islands are Spanish owned but are not part of the E.U.

I'm just waiting to see how much prices of all that we in Ireland import from the U.K. or via the U.K. change after Brexit.

Al.

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I just spotted the Irish flag beside your name!!

Both pumps dropped off to my guy, he was happy to see the the second one as he said they can become quite brittle over time so its good to have a doner.

Am aware of all of those sites, have found them right across the EU and beyond but I prefer to shop local when possible, be face to face with knowledge and support local when I can. I know this is not always the case!

Seat, Jagst, Zastava obviousy got the original moulds shall we say of the orginal 600 from Fiat, Fiat moved up a gear and moved to the in wind doors while the copies were built to the original body spec. Seat I believe continued on with the 600 until the mid 80's I read some where!

I managed to get these doors (image attached I hope) which while seconds are bloody good for €250 each and from what I can see they only need paint and a mirror swapped over. Shipping is about €100 so I'm well and truly in the green. I already have a new door skin on the right side that is bare and the left door had a repair section welded in but too much heat was used and there are warps. The seller would not split them and again they were there for the taking, hard to get and I'm happy enough to have them in such good condition.

A lot of those Islands like The Canaries are duty free even though Spanish so yes duty I would imagine could kick in.

Brexit for us Fiat lads might not be an issue, my dad is a Rover and Rolls Royce fan so him buying from Jr Wadhams and Flying Spares may indeed become an issue price wise along with the MG, Austin, Triumph and Mini guys.

Thanks Al, when shes up and running we'll meet for a coffee!! ☘☘☘

Gav

Gents,

Just a micro update.

Took the radiator out and connected up a garden hose to the heater matrix pipe and flushed it that way and then connected it to the waterpump bypass pipe and sent flow that way.
Still waiting for the pump to be returned but again at least that step has been taken. I didn't take the bypass hose off the thermostat housing and send it that way as there is zero wiggle room. Confident were golden though.

Also changed a rear brake cylinder as one piston was seized, I went to do the other side while I was there but there was no opening one of the bolts, was not happening so I elected to leave well enough alone, ain't broken, leave it be.

I have in underneath the rear arches wirebrushed and I'm going to give them a lick of paint while its arse is in the air.

My 600 doors arrived from Italy, one of them took a bit of a hit in shipping but it's not at all bad and can be repaired, thankfully it was the right door and not the one I need so happiness levels are high!

Hope everyone is well and safe!

Gav

Evening All,

I hope we are safe and well during these trying times!

Pump is back and on and if I must say the difference in sound alone is noticeable!

There is a little weep from it that I'm hoping will just be in and seal, it's not at all bad.

During g the down time I have started on the 600.

Keep well and stay safe!

Gav

Hello Gav-

this, er, may seem a bit bizarre; but just go with it!

I'm Jim from Edinburgh, and I've read of your cooling adventures with interest. I own a variety of Italian gear, but I don't have an 850 'yet'.
I have however been thinking about it for some years; and am currently biding-my-time over this series 1 example outside Birmingham

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1966-Fia...511387?hash=item48e12da95b:g:A7EAAOSwTM5Yy~1e

but, that's another story. Let's see how long we are indoors for..

ANYWAY; three weeks alone with my kids Lego (but not my kids) and I've started on a scale model of an 850.
The engine is about the size of my fist, and the gearbox; another fist also- the finished chassis will be enormous, even before I get to the bodywork!

However- details concerning the coolant radiator & OS rear wheel arch are a bit hazy.
I've got the Haynes manual and the genuine FIAT parts catalogue book from the 60's, but I can't find out about the rear OS arch.

I type to ask (any of you in fact) if the rectangular slot visible in the front of the radiator aperture (with the radiator removed) connects to the OS rear arch, and whether the radius of the rearmost portion of this arch, is different to the NS one?

Depending on your collective generosity of response; I may start a new thread for this (if it doesn't annoy you all!)

Hi Jim,

Hope you are keeping well during this fiasco, you certainly seem to be keeping entertained with Lego, I too almost went down this route as Lego launched a 500 model but it's on back order!! Us adult kids ay??!!

Anywho, please see the image below, this is of the radiator duct in the front firewall of the 850 Sedan with the rad removed, the Red X is the rear right shock absorber so there is a window to the rear right arch and the one on the left brings you into the back side of the engine/bell housing. Those two vents and size I cant recall if there is a difference. I'm not 100% certain if these had plugs at one stage that have disappeared in time of if there were intended to be open.

I hope this helps you, again note this is based on the Sedan/Berlina and not the Coupe.

Pics of progress on your model?

Gav

Hey Gav-

thanks for getting back to me; that's dynamite!

I've done ALOT of internet research but never found an image like that- I can perceive the convex nature of the radiator recess now, and I hadn't appreciated the link to the bell housing at all.
Being able to see the shock at that point, confirms my trailing-arm scaling so far.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to incorporate all the nuances of this particular area, as I have a some inescapable structural-stuff going on at this point, to maintain the wider rigidity of the rear chassis. I'll see how it develops.

Here's another stupid question (at the risk of hijacking your thread; sorry)-
is the fuel tank 'within' the cabin, but behind the seats?
As in 'on top of' the floorpan?

I found this single image online- although it's a slightly different variant being the Abarth; and I don't see the hole through from the fuel-filler?
Abarth could have front mounted the fuel tank of course...?

http://classiccarmag.net/classic-fiat-850-abarth-restoration-episode-three/

I'll do a new thread for pictures when I get just a bit further with it. Progress is painstaking; the gearbox took three days, and the front of the engine bay and trailing arm mounts, another three!

Thanks for your kind feedback- I LOVE your example

stay safe yourself /selves...

JimP

The fuel tank on the Berlina is located infront of the firewall behind the backseat and is filled under the engine bay lid.....right over the exhaust of all places!!! To do a tank drop for any reason is actually an engine and box out operation so this might give you a clearer indication as to its location. It is outside the main cabin and there are floor pans/bulkheads separating it from us. The only access to the tank then from the engine bay is at the rear left through a hand sized access panel and all this give you access to is the level sender.

That level of detail you wouldn't see in an Airfix model so with Lego I wouldn't be going too nuts. Also with the venting on the rad, this will no doubt be hidden from view as it is with the real thing so I wouldn't be over thinking it.

I've built the VW Camper that Lego do and the level of engine bay detail wasn't overly complex.......I never found the fuel tank on that!!!

If there is any other info you need just shout.....

Jim,

Also just to point out, you mentioned chassis, none of these had a chassis, they were all monocoque design so I don't know if this will help you from a brick count point of view and/or reduce the risk of chassis bits getting in the way of key features.

Might you be better to do the body first and then build the rest to fit it? Just my two cents, I know a week has already been invested into this build so it maybe the last thing you want to hear!

Gav

Thankyou again, Gav-

I pretty much thought that was what was going on (with the fuel tank), but, as is often the case with these things; the less 'exotic' parts get less attention.
And so are more difficult to get details on.

sorry; yes; a turn-of-phrase there; I understand the absence of 'chassis' in the classic sense, and also the lack of a subframe at the rear; the gearbox and trailing-arms mounts going onto the two diagonal underfloor members

Yes; body-first might have been a better idea; but at this point I was more interested in the 'packaging' of the drivetrain & running gear within the constraints of the back of the car.
I find that absolutely fascinating.

The VW camper model is a classic isn't it- one of they're more successful transitions, I think.
This 850 is going to be about three or four times as big!

Thanks for your help

JimP