Dear all

I'm hoping someone has had a similar problem and might have a cheaper alternative to what the garage is proposing.

The other day I noticed my heating wasn't working. It would only pump in hot air. On closer inspection by the garage they believe the plastic flap which directs either hot or cold air into the car is broken and fixed in one position.

They believe it's essentially just a piece of plastic that fits in a groove and swivels when asked by the motor. Which incidentally works.

This little piece can't be replaced. The heating repair kit costs £480.

The job takes a long time. A day and a half. Fiat would charge close to £1000 because of a tiny piece of plastic which has snapped.

Has anyone an alternative idea? Or has heard of this and knows of a cheaper way to fix this? The car is at 80000 miles and £1000 for this doesn't seem worth it.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

There's no simple fix, take a look at the last post picture to see what's involved
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/447639-only-blowing-warm-hot-air.html

This has nothing to do with the heater dial (with blue and red bits to turn to) does it?

Oh my god! That is insane! I'll have to wear thermal clothing from now on.

My car doesn't have any dials. It's all electronic and with buttons. I don't hear any click when changing the heating like mentioned in the other thread.

Think I'll have to investigate part exchanging the car. All that work and cost for something so little doesn't seem worth it on an 11 plate 80,000 mile vehicle. Such a shame, I love my twin air + special edition.

To add insult to injury the Twinair+ wasn't a special edition, it's just a spec level.

Kodama said:

I'll have to wear thermal clothing from now on.

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When I bought my first car, a heater was one of the optional extras. As a child, I can remember some icy cold car journeys. Makes me shiver just thinking about it.

Condolences; this would be a nasty surprise for anyone.

I wouldn't have expected a franchised dealer would fix this for £1000; that could be swallowed up in labour alone. Some folks have been quoted close to twice that for an all-inclusive parts & labour price. Remember both doors have got to come off, together with the top half of the steering, airbags, and most of the interior forward of the driver's seat; the aircon needs to be depressurised and then regassed as well - it's a major job. As to getting all that back together without introducing a few rattles or damaging something else; well, what do you think?

I'd agree that the difficulty & cost of this repair is staggering. Using a fragile piece of flimsy plastic in such an inaccessible location is indicative of very poor technical design on Fiat's part.

Trading in may be an option; the cost of the repair will be close to a trader's anticipated profit margin on the car, but if they notice the fault, you'll likely take a huge hit on the offered price. I won't go into the morals of this, but personally I wouldn't sell a car privately in this condition. Passing it on to WBAC; you decide .

Secondhand buyers might ponder on the thought that the previous owner had done exactly this . Correct functioning of the heating/climate control should be an essential pre-purchase check on any used 500, but that's still no guarantee it's not going to fail tomorrow. There's no way I know of inspecting the vulnerable parts.

Is the issue is more that the part is not repairable and only a complete heater is available rather than the access ?
If access is possible then maybe an improved design could be 3d printed ?
There is now even a company in the US that will print metal parts for around $5-600 per vertical inch (unit price is cheaper if more can be printed at once)
http://www.nbc.com/jay-lenos-garage/video/direct-metal-laser-printing/3469067

may be viable if this is as common a fault as it appears ?

pasotibbs said:

Is the issue is more that the part is not repairable and only a complete heater is available rather than the access ?

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Both.

Unless you do the work yourself, just gaining access will cost you in the region of £500-£1000.

I'd agree that it would be helpful if it were possible to source a replacement part which was likely to be more durable in service. For a component that's as inaccessible as this is, it needs to be designed to last the life of the car.

Spending the best part of 3 days to fit a secondhand part that could fail again next week is not my idea of a good way to use my time.

jrkitching said:

Both.

Unless you do the work yourself, just gaining access will cost you in the region of £500-£1000.

I'd agree that it would be helpful if it were possible to source a replacement part which was likely to be more durable in service. For a component that's as inaccessible as this is, it needs to be designed to last the life of the car.

Spending the best part of 3 days to fit a secondhand part that could fail again next week is not my idea of a good way to use my time.

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Just out of interest does it fail more often with cars that have electronic control, is our 59 plate pop fully mechanically controlled via the knob so maybe less likely to be forced against the stop?

This fault will only happen if you have climate control. It's the motors that turn the flaps reaching their stops that causes it to snap. From 2012ish they changed the heater box and so far I've not had any problems with them but unfortunately they are not compatible with earlier cars. I have fitted a fair few second hand units. Cost wise normally around £500-600 but couldn't guarantee it would never happen again.

burrowsdeano said:

This fault will only happen if you have climate control.

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That's a most useful clarification. Thank you.

burrowsdeano said:

Cost wise normally around £500-600 but couldn't guarantee it would never happen again.

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That would seem to me to be a reasonable charge for a one-man professionally trained mechanic doing this job.

Does that include the cost of the part, or is it just for the labour?

burrowsdeano said:

This fault will only happen if you have climate control. It's the motors that turn the flaps reaching their stops that causes it to snap.

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Am I right in suggesting that it would be better to NEVER set the heating or cooling to max, and always use a "reasonable" setting?

Thanks,
Mick

£500-600 would include the heater box as well but the total cost just depends on what I pay for the second hand box. Using max hot or cold as little as possible definitely increases the lifetime of the heater flap

Has anyone ever used an alternative in-car heater? Ive seen there are many out there like this one. Maradyne H-400012 Santa Fe 12V Floor-Mount Heater.

If anyone has experience of these, which would fit a Fiat 500 best?

Kodama said:

Has anyone ever used an alternative in-car heater? Ive seen there are many out there like this one. Maradyne H-400012 Santa Fe 12V Floor-Mount Heater.

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That's thinking outside the box!

This is amusingly cheap. I doubt it'd have enough power to make much difference to the cabin temp, but it might be enough to keep the mist off the glass.

I saw that one. It's only 50p at b&m stores!

If it's possible to get an alternative one, I think I'd like a proper one, mounted in the car connected to the pipes and using the cooling system already in place. Just bypassing the issue.

I've now read many reviews by many people on several systems, but they all seem like their in America in huge vehicles. Wondering if these would fit a dinky 500?

Kodama said:

Wondering if these would fit a dinky 500?

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It's certainly an intersting idea, but realistically I think by the time you'd managed to rig it all up & plumb it in, the effort involved would be comparable to repairing the existing unit, and you'd likely have to butcher the car to do it.

The real application of these kind of units is in RV's & motorhomes.

Time to google motorhome heaters perhaps (only half serious!)?

I've no problems with butchering the car. It's worth £3.5/£4k tops if the heating is working. A garage would recognise the £2k fault and offer very little for the car.

I really love it and want to keep the car. £150/£200 for a new heater and a few hours labour to fit it seems like it would be a huge saving to me.

What about a Draper 12V 200W DC-AC Inverter which plugs into the cigarette charger and then have a 2000W Fan Heater plug into the inverter?

It could sit just behind the seats on the floor.

Kodama said:

What about a Draper 12V 200W DC-AC Inverter which plugs into the cigarette charger and then have a 2000W Fan Heater plug into the inverter?

It could sit just behind the seats on the floor.

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There's no way a 200W inverter is going to deliver 2000W. I can't remember the maximum current rating for the 500 accessory socket, but 200W @ 12V is just under 17A. I'd be surprised if it's rated for that much - I'd have thought that 150W would be the upper limit for an accessory socket.

I do have an in-car 300W inverter which occasionally gets used (it'll just about power a small electric drill), but that needs to be connected directly across the battery terminals.

200W will do little as far as keeping the cabin warm is concerned. I'd have thought the factory fitted heater puts out somewhere in the region of 3-4kW.

If you really want to play at being Heath Robinson, you could construct something using a secondhand heater matrix (it doesn't have to be from a Fiat) and a 12V fan. Getting access to the heater pipes in the car may be as difficult as getting access to the heater box and repairing it properly.