Got rid at last.Wont be bothering FIAT again.Collect new MINI Cooper next week, lucky it was in stock so dont need to wait.I just hope VAG owners get better support regarding the current issue than FIAT did with this.To anyone thinking of buying the two cars dont bother with a 500 the MINI is different class,including the dealer experience.


***** Moderator's note:

This post started an off-topic drift about the relative merits of the 500 and its competitors, which continues in this thread.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

auditt said:

Got rid at last.Wont be bothering FIAT again.Collect new MINI Cooper next week, lucky it was in stock so dont need to wait.I just hope VAG owners get better support regarding the current issue than FIAT did with this.To anyone thinking of buying the two cars dont bother with a 500 the MINI is different class,including the dealer experience.

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I think you have done the right thing, i have had bad cars in the past and sometimes the best option is to get rid.

The Minis are great high quality cars, i am sure you will love it

I drove a BMW Mini once, and I wasn't impressed at all.

I drove a Fiat500 once, and I was hooked!

Each to their own, I suppose.
Mick.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

as a drivers car the Mini will always wipe the floor with a 500, enjoy

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Yes, the Mini would always wipe the floor with the 500.
How many times did the Mini win the Monte Carlo Rally?

................. or was 306Maxi talking about a BMW Mini?

Cheers!
Mick.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

What are you on about?

Cheers

Daniel

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

I think you have done the right thing, i have had bad cars in the past and sometimes the best option is to get rid.

The Minis are great high quality cars, i am sure you will love it

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I'd agree on the dealer experience but they certainly aren't high quality. But at least they'll give you free skinny macho chino's all day long when it does break. And wash it for free while they take you shopping.

And for more or less the same money to a Cooper S you can get a Golf GTi, no contest they're in a different league.

Style over funtion and all that, umm we're on a Fiat 500 forum. Go figure.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Oh and if you want to claim it all about the driving experience go get a Fiesta ST it'll wipe the floor with any Mini Cooper.

Or does the blue oval not fit......?

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

RussH said:

I'd agree on the dealer experience but they certainly aren't high quality. But at least they'll give you free skinny macho chino's all day long when it does break. And wash it for free while they take you shopping.

And for more or less the same money to a Cooper S you can get a Golf GTi, no contest they're in a different league.

Style over funtion and all that, umm we're on a Fiat 500 forum. Go figure.

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The two Mini coopers i have owned (both bmw versions) were faultless,

Officina red said:

The two Mini coopers i have owned (both bmw versions) were faultless,

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Congratulations. My 500 has been faultless, I had a Vectra that was faultless (despite being driven like I stole it for 100k) I had an Avensis that wasn't.

Your point being?

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

RussH said:

Congratulations. My 500 has been faultless, I had a Vectra that was faultless (despite being driven like I stole it for 100k) I had an Avensis that wasn't.

Your point being?

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My point being, if you have a bad car of any make, sell it, and personally i wouldn't buy that make again, but that might just be me.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

My point being, if you have a bad car of any make, sell it, and personally i wouldn't buy that make again, but that might just be me.

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Ok I get that, I've done that but that doesn't alter the fact that BMW Mini's are certainly not high quality and your 2 car sample is completely meaningless.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

RussH said:

Ok I get that, I've done that but that doesn't alter the fact that BMW Mini's are certainly not high quality and your 2 car sample is completely meaningless.

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You can get cars with terrible problems from any manufacturer, at least we agree on that,
but how do we measure quality, in my opinion the Mini is of a higher quality in every way than a 500, and thats not knocking the 500 , it is what it is. A stylish city car, nothing wrong with that, i do have one after all.

But in my opinion a Mini is a step above the 500, of course it is also dearer, you think a Golf Gti is better than a Cooper S , maybe it is, and maybe a Bentley thinks why are all of these trash cars on my roads. He is entitled to his opinion as well.

Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

You can get cars with terrible problems from any manufacturer, at least we agree on that,

but how do we measure quality, in my opinion the Mini is of a higher quality in every way than a 500, and thats not knocking the 500 , it is what it is. A stylish city car, nothing wrong with that, i do have one after all.



But in my opinion a Mini is a step above the 500, of course it is also dearer, you think a Golf Gti is better than a Cooper S , maybe it is, and maybe a Bentley thinks why are all of these trash cars on my roads. He is entitled to his opinion as well.

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A step above in price too so one would expect it to be different

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

How do you define quality is an extremely tricky question.

BMW and therefore Mini are experts at this but is it just perception?

Is reality just perception?

VW until recently were masters at this as well. Reality being that Skoda and Seat produced better quality products but due to marketing were forced to produce vehicles that appeared to be of inferior quality.

Fiat are perceived to produce lower quality products compared to say Japanese manufacturers. Do they?

Personally I don't believe the German manufacturers do actually produce higher quality products (and I have VW's and MB's car's) Yes my 1996 G Wagen is extremely high quality but that's before the Chrysler and the bean counters took over and to buy one of the same spec. now would be £100k plus. They're now marketing over substance. Sound familiar?

Check the statistics. BMW Mini has a justifiably poor reputation for reliability but customer satisfaction will be high because they know how to treat their customers. A very similar story to LR they produce some horrific vehicles but they generally treat their customers very well.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

We could go at this all day, but i still believe auditt got rid of a crap car and replaced with a better one. Thats not to have a go at all 500's or Fiat in general. It's something i have done in the past, (not involving Fiats or Minis)

Plus i do think Japanese cars are more reliable than any european maker.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

RussH said:

How do you define quality is an extremely tricky question.

BMW and therefore Mini are experts at this but is it just perception?

Is reality just perception?

VW until recently were masters at this as well. Reality being that Skoda and Seat produced better quality products but due to marketing were forced to produce vehicles that appeared to be of inferior quality.

Fiat are perceived to produce lower quality products compared to say Japanese manufacturers. Do they?

Personally I don't believe the German manufacturers do actually produce higher quality products (and I have VW's and MB's car's) Yes my 1996 G Wagen is extremely high quality but that's before the Chrysler and the bean counters took over and to buy one of the same spec. now would be £100k plus. They're now marketing over substance. Sound familiar?

Check the statistics. BMW Mini has a justifiably poor reputation for reliability but customer satisfaction will be high because they know how to treat their customers. A very similar story to LR they produce some horrific vehicles but they generally treat their customers very well.

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Of course i could be wrong, do you believe the Fiat 500 is a higher quality car than a Mini Cooper ?

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

Of course i could be wrong, do you believe the Fiat 500 is a higher quality car than a Mini Cooper ?

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No. But they certainly don't match the marketing perception, if you wish to be taken in by such stuff so be it. They are at best average and certainly no better than the mass market stuff, probably worse than Ford and the majority of Japanese manufacturers.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

Of course i could be wrong, do you believe the Fiat 500 is a higher quality car than a Mini Cooper ?

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The answer to that question is a matter of engine choice, if it has the Turbo prince engine in the MINI then run...like the wind. Or alternately budget to have the head off every 30 to 50k for decoking..oh and regular timing chain changes.

Not badly built, badly designed so failure is very probable. In terms of visible quality MINI wins hands down obviously, but given the price difference it should.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

RussH said:

No. But they certainly don't match the marketing perception, if you wish to be taken in by such stuff so be it. They are at best average and certainly no better than the mass market stuff, probably worse than Ford and the majority of Japanese manufacturers.

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So it's Fiat-Mini-Ford -japanese