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General Which winter tyres are people going for

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General Which winter tyres are people going for

306maxi said:
There is no law that says that if you have insurance on a car and you want to allow an unnamed 19 year old drive it that they must cover you.

The law however does state that they MUST cover you if you have e-marked tyres on your car, no mention is made of winter, all season or summer tyres. Not insuring your car because you've got e-marked winter tyres on is illegal.
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Trust me, there is no law which says that insurers have to provide you with cover if you have winter tyres if they say that they won't. And it is a breach of neither the civil law nor the criminal law to decline to insure someone because of their choice of tyres.
 
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RobinPJ said:
Please try to understand before one of us dies.

Whenever two parties contract with each other, they can choose the terms on which they do business unless they break the law (for example by discriminating against you on the grounds of race). An insurance company could, in theory, choose to say that they will only insure you to drive at certain times or on certain classes of roads. In fact, for young drivers some do.

In the same way, if they wanted to, they could say that you cannot use winter tyres.

I agree, however, that if they do not actually say so in black and white then they would not be likely to succeed if they refused to pay out just becuase you had winter tyres on in summer or whenever.

Basically, it is not breaking the law to forbid your customers to use winter tyres. Stupid, yes, illegal, no.
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It is actually.

Just like there are laws protecting people from discrimination, there are laws which mean that an insurance company can't discriminate between a premium European tyre or a cheap Chinese one. They're both just as legal as each other. Ditto with a winter or a summer tyre. Is it daft to drive on sheet ice with a summer tyre? Definitely! Illegal? No!

For insurers to be able to place restrictions further than just the e-mark would require further legislation such as that in Germany which forces people to run winter tyres in winter conditions if they want to be insured. Germany explicitly took action in this regard and for there to be any sort of law allowing UK insurance companies to refuse cover to drivers on winter tyres in the summer would require a similar action to be taken to legally allow insurers to be able to think about declining claims in the summer for winter tyre users.



A company such as Continental who will be very aware of europe wide tyre legislation would not advocate the use of winter tyres all year round

http://www.conti-online.com/generat...inter-tyres/why_winter/4x4_why_winter_en.html

When should I fit winter tyres to my car?
It is recommended that you switch to winter tyres in the UK between October and April.
If you are reluctant to change tyres and have nowhere to store summer tyres when they are not in use, you are better off using winter tyres all year round.
Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly.
There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer.
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There is a key factor missing in all this - performance.
E.g. the 'new' premium brands in winter tyres e.g. the Ultragrip 8 and the Conti 800plus, etc. is I'd imagine way ahead of what was there 2-3 years ago. Insurance can't discriminate against the tyres that have been proven to perform miserably and don't mention specific makes (an example was posted a few pages back).
Should there be a performance marking ?
Maybe the E thing isn't good enough ?
There is also the depth of thread e.g. at half worn they're OK in the summer but when they are brand new with (11mm of thread ?) they can be a problem in certain conditions ?
 
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loveshandbags said:
There is a key factor missing in all this - performance.
E.g. the 'new' premium brands in winter tyres e.g. the Ultragrip 8 and the Conti 800plus, etc. is I'd imagine way ahead of what was there 2-3 years ago. Insurance can't discriminate against the tyres that have been proven to perform miserably and don't mention specific makes (an example was posted a few pages back).
Should there be a performance marking ?
Maybe the E thing isn't good enough ?
There is also the depth of thread e.g. at half worn they're OK in the summer but when they are brand new with (11mm of thread ?) they can be a problem in certain conditions ?
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I certainly agree that a simple E-marking is not enough. I love the fact that soon we're going to have ratings for tyres similar to those for home appliances and that tyre places will be forced to tell you how good or bad the cheap tyres they're selling you really are. A lot of people simply don't realise how bad cheap tyres can be.

Most tyres are between 8-9mm when new :)
 
306maxi said:
I certainly agree that a simple E-marking is not enough. I love the fact that soon we're going to have ratings for tyres similar to those for home appliances and that tyre places will be forced to tell you how good or bad the cheap tyres they're selling you really are. A lot of people simply don't realise how bad cheap tyres can be.

Most tyres are between 8-9mm when new :)
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Well that's what I get when someone posts wrong information on the Winter tyre thread :devil: - you have to double check everything :)

RobinPJ said:
You're gonna need more than 11mm of tread to deal with the surface water in the first pic...
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306maxi said:
If I'm honest Michael, I'd be extremely wary of running anything other than the tyres specified by the manufacturer. The whole "change in performance" thing is very wishy washy and if the poop hit the fan them I'm sure they'd use it against you.

As for temperature, if they try to ping you on that I'd just quote the relevant EU laws as well as the Irish ones with regards to tyres. 4 words you won't find in there are winter, all weather and summer. Show them the E mark on the tyre and then tell them to give you your cheque :)
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If I can't get the insurance guys to 'accept' 175/60x15 for the F500 and end up getting 185/55x15 then I can't use them for the A500. Which is a bit of a joke because the latter tyre will definitely be better that a set of 195/45x16 Pirelli Snowifyoucancontrolthem tyres.

Did you notice that if your 500 has no powersteering you can fit the smaller 165s - must only apply to the Italian market with their 'Naked' model. And only the 14s can take chains.
 

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loveshandbags said:
If I can't get the insurance guys to 'accept' 175/60x15 for the F500 and end up getting 185/55x15 then I can't use them for the A500. Which is a bit of a joke because the latter tyre will definitely be better that a set of 195/45x16 Pirelli Snowifyoucancontrolthem tyres.

Did you notice that if your 500 has no powersteering you can fit the smaller 165s - must only apply to the Italian market with their 'Naked' model. And only the 14s can take chains.
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I thought the 185/55 R15's were winter spec for the Abarth?

Edit: Obviously not......
 
loveshandbags said:
Well that's what I get when someone posts wrong information on the Winter tyre thread :devil: - you have to double check everything :)
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Michael - my statement about needing more than 11mm of tread was refering to the picture of a very cold looking sea in the post I was commenting on. I was jokingly suggesting that you might be planning on driving across it. It was not intended as a serious comment.
 
RobinPJ said:
Michael - my statement about needing more than 11mm of tread was refering to the picture of a very cold looking sea in the post I was commenting on. I was jokingly suggesting that you might be planning on driving across it. It was not intended as a serious comment.
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We were both attempting the same thing but 'it got lost at sea'. Given that I 'dropped' the email I felt it was important to re-visit. I haven't thought too much of OPs who would start a thread and then do a runner when it got a little heated. Hence the posting. Thank you both for the lively debate. :hug:
I've had a chance to re-read the letter in a different light and to re-read Andy's 'letter'. If you look hard enough you can always plug holes in what's been stipulated e.g.
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
So if I fit decent winter tyres that cost more than the standard fit summer tyres are they not covered ?:confused:
On that Winter tyre that I had considered for the OH's mito (this was posted a few pages back) it would be deemed to unacceptable both on the email that I got & Andy's letter since it was not a recommended tyre by Tyre 'experts'. So in effect it was illegal because I would not be insured if I had them on the car and that was an E rated tyre.
If I had a requirement for snow chains which would be a legal requirement in Europe near the ski resorts the A500 manufacturers 'recommendation' allow 7mm thick chains on 16s but on the F500 only the 14s car have snow chains. So here is a situation where you could justify 15x175/75 to take 'normal' chains (the 7mm sound a bit thin to me) so that they would clear the arch on either car (F500 or A500). It also might explain why that A500 driver picked that particular size. Now here's the crunch - How do I get from 10 degree Dublin to -2 degree ski resort without breaking the 7 degree 'rule' - impossible. Anyway their letter doesn't explicitly state the temperature so I could get away with it once it wasn't the middle of summer. And even if I did I could produce statistics that the braking distance penalty had no bearing on the situation so they could not maintain that I was partially to blame / negligent.
Anyway it goes to prove the point that a 'little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. If I simply sent a letter in informing them of what I was doing and the reason why - the Insurance co. would have to honour the claim and pay out if there was an accident. In the case of Aviva I would very much doubt that they would charge a premium since they want my business on renewal this January.
 
loveshandbags said:
We were both attempting the same thing but 'it got lost at sea'. Given that I 'dropped' the email I felt it was important to re-visit. I haven't thought too much of OPs who would start a thread and then do a runner when it got a little heated. Hence the posting. Thank you both for the lively debate. :hug:
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How dare you suggest that I would hug Robin! After our argument yesterday any good will between us is gone! :p Joking of course. I think it's a model argument to be honest. Two people who both strongly believe they're right who aren't making it personal and who didn't take anything personally. I still believe I'm right and although I think Robin is wrong, it's not necessarily bad advice to play things safe so as to avoid the worry of the insurance company saying that they're not going to pay out even if they are wrong.
 
306maxi said:
How dare you suggest that I would hug Robin! After our argument yesterday any good will between us is gone! :p Joking of course. I think it's a model argument to be honest. Two people who both strongly believe they're right who aren't making it personal and who didn't take anything personally. I still believe I'm right and although I think Robin is wrong, it's not necessarily bad advice to play things safe so as to avoid the worry of the insurance company saying that they're not going to pay out even if they are wrong.
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No - you're wrong. And you're a tw@t.*











* Joke
 
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