What's made you smile today?

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

New water pump and old water pump side by side, the new one came as part of a gates cambelt kit with a new tensioner.

Now which one do we think will move more water and also which one do we think would be a better quality and more expensive

I've seen kits with both of these pumps and my instinct is to go for the one with the deeper impeller fins, but I don't know if my thinking is sound. Also wonder if certain engine specs call for one or other of the pumps. If not engine specific then why the two types?

Another factor is that one is a metal impeller whilst the other is plastic. There have been problems in the past with plastic impellers coming loose from their spindle - and so not pumping properly. It's quite difficult to diagnose why an engine is overheating due to a loose impeller as there are really no external clues like "grumbly" bearings etc - However I've not come across a loose plastic impeller for some time so maybe they've pretty much sorted that problem now?

 

[porta]

I've seen kits with both of these pumps and my instinct is to go for the one with the deeper impeller fins, but I don't know if my thinking is sound. Also wonder if certain engine specs call for one or other of the pumps. If not engine specific then why the two types?

Another factor is that one is a metal impeller whilst the other is plastic. There have been problems in the past with plastic impellers coming loose from their spindle - and so not pumping properly. It's quite difficult to diagnose why an engine is overheating due to a loose impeller as there are really no external clues like "grumbly" bearings etc - However I've not come across a loose plastic impeller for some time so maybe they've pretty much sorted that problem now?

I’m probably telling you how to suck eggs but…Impellers are pretty much like props in the job that they do and are a lot more than just fins that push water. It’s difficult to tell how well either would do their job as the fins size, angle, compound angle, and in an impeller, cavitation space and shape are all factors. I’m presuming that both are designed to do the job to the specified. The choice then would be metal or plastic, having had both types fail, (farm/plant engines) and noted both were nylon and metal bearings, you makes your bed, you lie in it.

 

[portland_bill]

Now if only we could get him to stop barging in playing a guitar at 6am we'd have it sorted..

What he needs is a drum kit, that'll take his mind off the guitar.

 

[AndyRKett]

Another factor is that one is a metal impeller whilst the other is plastic.

Well, I was a little surprised to find the impeller of the newer pump appearing to be plastic but a quick flick of the fins reveal that it’s all metal and just painted or coated with something that looks like a black plastic. It is just a black paint of sorts.

I’m probably telling you how to suck eggs but…Impellers are pretty much like props in the job that they do and are a lot more than just fins that push water. It’s difficult to tell how well either would do their job as the fins size, angle, compound angle, and in an impeller, cavitation space and shape are all factors. I’m presuming that both are designed to do the job to the specified. The choice then would be metal or plastic, having had both types fail, (farm/plant engines) and noted both were nylon and metal bearings, you makes your bed, you lie in it.

I don’t think you need a PHD in fluid dynamics to work out which pump will move more water, given that both would spin at the same rate for any given Rev range.
The old pump is a very cheap and rudimentary design where as the blades of the newer pump are much deeper and shaped in such a way that it creates a low pressure in the centre of the pump increasing flow, and there is considerably greater surface area in the new pump with which to generate a propelling force on the liquid.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I’m probably telling you how to suck eggs but…Impellers are pretty much like props in the job that they do and are a lot more than just fins that push water. It’s difficult to tell how well either would do their job as the fins size, angle, compound angle, and in an impeller, cavitation space and shape are all factors. I’m presuming that both are designed to do the job to the specified. The choice then would be metal or plastic, having had both types fail, (farm/plant engines) and noted both were nylon and metal bearings, you makes your bed, you lie in it.

Well, I was a little surprised to find the impeller of the newer pump appearing to be plastic but a quick flick of the fins reveal that it’s all metal and just painted or coated with something that looks like a black plastic. It is just a black paint of sorts.


I don’t think you need a PHD in fluid dynamics to work out which pump will move more water, given that both would spin at the same rate for any given Rev range.
The old pump is a very cheap and rudimentary design where as the blades of the newer pump are much deeper and shaped in such a way that it creates a low pressure in the centre of the pump increasing flow, and there is considerably greater surface area in the new pump with which to generate a propelling force on the liquid.

My simplistic little brain would guess that the deeper bladed impeller would probably move more liquid. The problem, from my point of view, is whether that would be desirable for any given engine? If the engine can't flow the extra coolant then all that's going to happen is the pump will cavitate which is going to aerate the coolant making it less able to conduct the heat and, maybe, increasing corrosion in the system due to the extra oxygen? also increasing the likelihood of air locks? However, at the end of the day, the decision is a bit of a fait accompli as I'm going to be pretty much stuck with whatever comes in the kit. I've done quite a few belt kits on Pandas now and they've always contained the pump with the bigger blades, only difference seems to be the colour of the blades, last one had definitely plastic blades in a very fetching beige! I always buy "big name" kits, so Gates (my preferred go to) SKF, Continental, INA, Dayco, etc, etc.

 

[AndyRKett]

Going back 25 years, there were reoccurring issues with the 1.2 Punto's over heating and blowing head gaskets This car has clearly had at least one head gasket before in its life, and this water pump is old, really old and I believe it is also designed on the original OEM design from fiat. with all that said I suspect the design of the new pump is an improvement on that old design to prevent these past known issues from recurring I don't think a company like gates would design a pump in this way if it were not going to have some improvement, or if it was going to cause issues to the rest of the cooling system.

I was taken aback at how much of a difference there was between the two pumps, one looks horribly cheap and the other looks like it is properly engineered.

 

[vexorg]

What's on the engine side where the waterpump goes in, seems odd that fiat have that offset.
I cant see it being one big hole otherwise the impeller effect is lost. If there's a lip or barrier then the bigger blades may be less effective as the water is pushed where it shouldn't be.
Bigger isn't always better in these cases.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I got all my stuff for the Panda as well going through eBay, deals on sites such as Mopar Store, Partsworld

1) Squircle decals £68 from Mopar Store 20% off sale
2) Rear Bumper protector £15 from Rufford Supplies in Warrington
3) Coat Hangers £20 each from also from Rufford Supplies in Warrington
4) Short Aerial £11 of eBay
5) Rear Cargo net for boot £20 from Pentagon
6) K way hubcaps £16 set of 4 from Partsworld
7) Genuine sill protectors £60 off eBay, spare set sourced for £15
8) Genuine Panda boot liner £35 off eBay, this was my first purchase for the Panda
9) Genuine Rear bumper scuff protector, I think £15 from Rufford Supplies Warrington
10) Genuine Panda red roof rails new old stock off eBay £130, fitted stainless bolts instead of supplied ones
11) Genuine Panda pair of red mirror covers £35 I think from Burrows in a clearance sale
12) Genuine Fiat back seat organiser for 500L & Tipo but fits the Panda £12.50 from Arnold clark
13) Red boot pull strap of eBay £5.99
14) Panda pillar badges I think £30 in sale on Partsworld
15) Genuine 500 Italian flag wing badges £20 of eBay
16) Genuine Panda personality kit £20 of eBay
17) Armster armrest brand new in box 99p of eBay
18) Automotiva door mouldings £50 from Automotiva site
19) DAB stereo with new speakers, wiring adaptors & aerial around £225 roughly
20) pressed number plates with Fiat/Abarth surrounds about £50

I'm sure there's more but it's not coming to me right now without going through all the receipts , but I know I've spent around about £800 on the Genuine Fiat stuff which if I'd have bought them from the dealers at full cost it would have been around double that amount so I've done quite well I think

I done the red boot pull. Noe Im old and can only just see it helps....

Don't say a word, I can still get a traffic wardens boot under the tyre without making their tunic!

 

[The Panda Nut]

I done the red boot pull. Noe Im old and can only just see it helps....

Don't say a word, I can still get a traffic wardens boot under the tyre without making their tunic!

I want the Panda badges but Ive set a £30 limit, so Im envious. Your cheap sill protectors were stunning cost. Just shows what you can find!

 

[FiatMatt94]

I want the Panda badges but Ive set a £30 limit, so Im envious. Your cheap sill protectors were stunning cost. Just shows what you can find!

That's exactly what I did, I set a limit as to what I was willing to spend on each thing as some of Fiat's prices were ridiculous

 

[Cheest]

We're going to attempt to go to see Dune part 2 today. We'll see if I can still get around the theater on my crutches and hopefully tell my bladder to shut the hell up for a three hour movie.

 

[vexorg]

They need to bring intermissions, and the lady that wandered round the cinema with drinks and ice cream

 

[porta]

Usherette?!?

 

[Cheest]

They need to bring intermissions, and the lady that wandered round the cinema with drinks and ice cream

You are either a lot older than me or it's something that wasn't done on this side of the pond.

 

[porta]

You are either a lot older than me or it's something that wasn't done on this side of the pond.

We’ve seen them on old US movies, which means we’re older than you and you only watch modern films!

 

[vexorg]

Towering inferno, ice station zebra, and the likes still have the message come up when they show on UK tv

And anyone around mid-50's will remember good kiora before they banned all the additives.

 

[porta]

Towering inferno, ice station zebra, and the likes still have the message come up when they show on UK tv

And anyone around mid-50's will remember good kiora before they banned all the additives.

Then we got Sunny-D that hadn’t seen a fruit!

 

[ben]

Today is White Day in Asia, which is basically reverse valentines day.

My gf isn't in the country now, so instead she ordered me an Uber Eats for dinner

 

[Cheest]

I guess you had to live where there was a real cinema. The town I grew up in had a gas station, post office, tiny grocery store, a machine shop, fire dept, and six pubs. If we went to the movies at all, we piled into the Rambler wagon and went to the big city of Kenosha to the drive in. I remember going to see 'Bridge On The River Kwai' but not staying awake past the march.

Modern movies, eh? On my Ipad I have the above Bridge On The River Kwai; Tora, Tora, Tora; Them; When Worlds Collide; the original War Of The Worlds and The Lost World; The Giant Gila Monster; The Killer Shrews; 2001, A Space Odyssey; Mon Oncle; The Time Machine; Conquest Of Space; Invasion Of The Body Snatchers; Wizards. If we make the 80s and up 'Modern', then American Pop; The Road Warrior; Tron; Kung Fu Hustle; Cry, The Beloved Country; Skiptrace; The Martian; and The Foreigner. Just something to keep my mind from frying on long flights.

Mrs.Cheest is more into modern movies; the Marvel Universe, Transformers, crappy movies on SYFY. She also likes thirties thru fifties rom-coms and mysteries. She controls the TV remote. We recently watched 'Poor Things' on Hulu. I now know what a nekkid Emma Stone looks like front, back, and sides. Unfortunately, I also know what Mark Ruffalo looks like nekkid.

 

[vexorg]

Today is White Day in Asia

That's so racist!!

I guess you had to live where there was a real cinema. The town I grew up in had a gas station, post office, tiny grocery store, a machine shop, fire dept, and six pubs. If we went to the movies at all, we piled into the Rambler wagon and went to the big city of Kenosha to the drive in. I remember going to see 'Bridge On The River Kwai' but not staying awake past the march.

I'm from a small town here, and there used to be 7 cinemas in it, though only 1 by the time I got to go in the 70's.

Kung fu hustle is very underrated, it's one of those I dont mind watching again. Most films bore me second time watching, I've got quite a good memory and remember them too well.