A quote from a children's film I think?
R.I.P. Maggie
- Thread starter jrkitching
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R.I.P. Maggie
A quote from a children's film I think?
ban1111
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hindsight's a wonderful thing,very much doubt Maggie saw through the euro gravy train as there is the small matter that many on that gravy train are from here the UK,do hate when people try to separate us from 20 or so other nations sharing dealing scheming in the same way.
dont forget that gravy train is why nissan honda toyota all build cars here.
or do you really think there's any other reason for them and indeed many more industries with head offices outside the UK to be here these days?
and lets not forget here we stand so called protected by not being fully integrated into Europe [EU] and we still are in the ****e!some hindsight that is. further more our peoples debt, ie individuals is far worrying for me as a person than the national debt, nobody will take out country away but our individual debt is far higher than anywhere in the EU, when jobs go we more often than our EU friends personally loose more.....this all goes back to maggies time in power...
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Hindsight is when you look back at a situation and wish that with the knowledge you have now, you had made a different decision at the earlier time.
I am not sure how old you are, but Mrs T was always sceptical about the Euro project. She thought it should have been limited to a trade agreement, not a monument to waste. Why do you think we still have a rebate to our contributions? Because she negotiated one.
I must admit I don't understand a lot of the rest of your post, but I share your concerns about personal debt. So you will be pleased to know that alothough our Government is incapable of bringing down public debt by much ( despite what you might think watching the TV), but the public are doing mucg better at it. Personal debt has fallen over the last 18 months. the first time in ages!
I am not sure how old you are, but Mrs T was always sceptical about the Euro project. She thought it should have been limited to a trade agreement, not a monument to waste. Why do you think we still have a rebate to our contributions? Because she negotiated one.
I must admit I don't understand a lot of the rest of your post, but I share your concerns about personal debt. So you will be pleased to know that alothough our Government is incapable of bringing down public debt by much ( despite what you might think watching the TV), but the public are doing mucg better at it. Personal debt has fallen over the last 18 months. the first time in ages!
21 years and a new leader
its a song from the 1939 film the Wizzard of Oz sung after the Wicked witch of the west is thought to be killed when Dorothy throws a bucket of water over her.
Interestingly though in the musical Wicked which recants the Story of the Wicked witch of the west, the story tells a tale of a 'different' (green) outcast woman who upset with the current system of Govenment (which represses the voice of the animals) in Oz looks for reform, becomes unpopular when she 'defies gravity' by making a broom levitate earning her the title 'wicked witch' she is forced to go on the run hounded by witch hunters who want her dead, during the story she magics a pair of shoes which allow her disabled sister to walk, who is murdered when a house lands on her head and Dorothy steals her 'magic shoes' she confronts Dorothy for parking her house on her sister but the homicidal bitch throws a bucket of water over her and kills her (she melts).
fortunately this was all a scam and she really faked her own death for the sake of everyone else, because ultimately she was a good person trying to do whats right and got a bad rap
Now I think Maggie might find the use of the song in respect of her death to be quite humorous under the circumstances, it highlights that those using it are in effect ill informed and ill cultured and unable to see anything out side of their own little world, which people are very good at focusing in on. But people rarely take a step back to look at the wider picture.
Now I could easily find a number of good or bad things that any PM you care to name, has done. but at the end of it all there is this over riding need to the government to take the position of 'the greater good' 280,000 miners versus a population of 60million, the poll tax (not exactly a new thing) was something thatcher was voted in to implement.
There is always a bigger picture and until you can understand every aspect and facet then it is impossible to justify the reaction that people are having to her death
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Definitely the new leader!
That's the thing that I dislike most about the "ding dong the witch is dead" cr*p.
Of course Thatcher was loved by some and hated by some, because unfortunately when you get off the fence and do something instead of sitting around just keeping the seat warm and looking after your own interests, that's exactly what happens. You get a split opinion, but just look what we have had over the last years:
A mediocre consensualist (Major)
A ruthless liar with a smiley face and "I'm a straightforward guy" image(guess who!)
A permanently angry Scotsman with a huge chip on his shoulder and a great skill for preaching "prudence" at the same time as dreaming up ever more ludicrous ways of wasting it.
An now, a nice boy who is so ashamed of his up-bringing that he doesn't know who he is, what he is, or who he is representing as P.M
The son of a Marxist who is in the job because the Unions picked the wrong brother.
And Clegg? Well he's the embodiment of how you can say whathever you like as a Lib Dem in the run up to elections as nobody will ever hold you to account afterwards.....o'h dear. It didn't work out like that this time did it?
And look at the ones that fell by the wayside?
Foot, Kinnock, Hague.
All in all, if you were to put any of the above in to a debate with Mrs T, who would your money honestly be on? A degree in Chemical Engineering and one in Law as well beats Politics and Philosophy in my book!
ban1111
New member
" the government to take the position of 'the greater good' 280,000 miners versus a population of 60million,"
Do you mean for the greater good of society?If so didn't maggie state there was no such thing as society.
In one great swoop she invented dog eat dog and" the greater good" meant those who supporter her parties views, so as she normally got less than 50% of the vote one could actually state it was not for the greater good of the majority!
Do you mean for the greater good of society?If so didn't maggie state there was no such thing as society.
In one great swoop she invented dog eat dog and" the greater good" meant those who supporter her parties views, so as she normally got less than 50% of the vote one could actually state it was not for the greater good of the majority!
I think you had perhaps better go and read that quote and understand what she was talking about, because you've taken her words completely out of context.
simmo999
New member
Miners,steel workers,Dockers,printers,96 Liverpool fans, victims off South African and Chilean regimes. People like my self who were made unemployed, high mortgage rate, negative equities on those mortgages, poll tax where the poor pay the same as the rich, there was a riot the last time it was brought in, thought they would have learnt from history.pulling out the submarine that the last government sent to the south Atlantic, planning to scrap the Atlantic survey ship, announcing that the two aircraft carriers are to be sold. And then the shock that after year's of threats, the Argies invaded the Falklands. And the list goes on. Ding dong the witch is dead. That Judy Garlands got a lot to answer for. HA
ban1111
New member
no her words were out of context they didnt match what she really meant, but hey i got the percentages wrong she actually polled above 50% even 60% of the votes. but you know what they say about majorities. sheep are easily led.......
who were costing the country millions in a non profitable state subsidised industry.
no idea on this one? care to elaborate?
so i'm not quite sure what she was supposed to have done? other than be in power at the time, covered up something? i'm pretty sure that was the police
I forgot she was the PM of south african and Chille as well the fact that Apartheid ended and Augusto Pinochet gave up his dictatorship while she was still in office seem to have slipped you by? although you may not agree with the segregation that took place in SA you surely can't condone the violence of the Umkhonto we Sizwe group that nelson Mandela founded ?
how is this any different to the situation the country is in now? currently with 2.5million unemployed the collapse of the economy and housing prices
part of the 1977 election manifesto for which thatcher was voted in at the time this is what people wanted, it it were still in place today maybe there would be cause to hold a grudge ?
really you're getting wound up over this? cutting back in tough times on things that the tax payer was funding? how dare she !
again i'm not really sure what your point is here? she didn't start the falklands just like now the argentinians still claim ownership of the islands
on a personal level you may have a right to be angry about the government's handling of things at the time that cost you your job or created a recession however i'm pretty sure non of it was done by her personally towards you
as before people who hate her look only what she did for/to them those that praise and give thanks, look at the bigger picture of what she did for us as a country, quick to condemn what has happened but unwilling to consider the implications of what state we would be in if these things hadn't happened
Anybody who thinks that "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead" is a suitable comment when somebody, anybody has just died is unworthy of a reply.
Oh I see and what exactly did you base that conclusion on?
Her actual argument was to question the definition of 'society' we are a country of people and a population and so is instilled the 'concept' of society what she was saying with your 'every man for himself' attitude was that it was not for the government to bail out every member of this society who falls on bad times and that it was the duty of every member of the 'society' to contribute and help each other out, other wise where one person is taking more than there share at the expense of the nation the whole concept of 'society fails'
so in response to your
Indeed they are they follow everything that news papers and the media feed them without question or investigation then with closed mind regurgitate the journalistic effluent back to anyone and everyone who will listen.sheep are easily led.......
I'm not saying people didn't suffer but what i will say is that to quote 'ding dong the witch is dead ' is to identify yourself as someone who doesn't look to see the greatness of the nation or appreciate the privilege that it is to live in the UK, you're just another sheep looking to see what else they are owed or entitled to.
Just a note if I may - you will not hear Nelson Mandela singing it either.
He knows that whatever were the appearances at the time, her Government plaid a huge part in gaining his release, and by pushing but supporting at the same time the SA Government so that they could end apartheid once and for all, without the country descending in to a bloodbath.
He knows that whatever were the appearances at the time, her Government plaid a huge part in gaining his release, and by pushing but supporting at the same time the SA Government so that they could end apartheid once and for all, without the country descending in to a bloodbath.
simmo999
New member
I'm not angry, just really happy this week, that Mrs Garland will be number 1 in the hit parade. " ding dong the witch dead"
Miners? No-one wanted coal, and if there's an increase in open cast mining then it's probably because they're operating from such a low base that it seems an impressive increase.
Steel workers? Anyone on here own a British car? Aha, thought so. We're as guilty of killing off the steel industry as anyone else. There was a truck maker in Oldham called Seddon Atkinson and in its last days was owned by IVECO. They decided to make SA their "Utilities Divison" which made chassis for dustcarts and the like. Manchester Council which was based only a few miles away used Volvos and then Mercedes. Other councils followed suit with only a few buying SAs, Leylands or ERFs. They were also guilty of destroying our industry. Haulage companies also bought Volvos, Mercedes, Scania et al, partly because they were better trucks but also because the Germans and Swedes out-marketed the British.
Dockers? Up to the late '60s ships were unloaded the way they had been for decades, by craning sacks, boxes and crates in nets onto the dockside or into lighters to be moved elsewhere. Up to the late '50s even coaches were craned onto cross channel ferries. In the early '70s containers were introduced and in Liverpool a new container base was built at Seaforth. They even wanted the trains to be turned over to their members by BR. Not surprisingly the dockers' unions wanted in for their members and when the new owners wouldn't play ball the dockers went on strike. When a new grain terminal was planned in the same area there was a repeat.
Liverpool supporters were killed at Hillsborough not because of Thatcher, or South Yorkshire Police, but because of the layout of the ground and the fencing. Fencing that was put there to stop hooligan supporters invading the pitch and fighting with rival fans. That's why they couldn't get out. A friend of mine who was a freelance photographer who was there for work has always reckoned that the cops were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. They had no idea how much of what was happening was because of rowdy fans or a real crisis. If football fans (generally) hadn't behaved worse than animals the fences would never have been there and no-one would have died. Sadly, one of the problems with Liverpool and Scousers (apologies to any on here) is that nothing is ever their fault.
I don't remember the victims of Heysel having such a fuss made over them by Liverpool fans or club, or newspapers for that matter. If anyone needs reminding, 39 Italian fans died and 600 were injured, not because of a mix up but because of the same kind of violent behaviour that caused fencing to be put up around English grounds like Hillsborough.
Apartheid? I can clearly remember Thatcher's refusal to engage in sanctions against the South African government of P. W. Botha. If there had been total sanctions she knew that the people who suffered the most would be the black population who worked in the mines and other menial jobs. She also knew that Mandela wouldn't be released by sanctions but by representation. He later met Mrs. Thatcher and told her that her's was the right way to go.
Chile? Pinochet may have been a dictator, but South America was full of them, it was simply a matter of perm any one from ten. Also, as in so many cases, it's a case of "Our enemy's enemy is our friend". Chile rendered us assistance over the Flaklands so we beat one dictator with the aid of another. Has a kind of poetic ring to it.
I was made redundant as well, not by Thatcher but by the Three Day Week. We bought our house in 1989 right at the top of the market. We also suffered from negative equity and high interest rates. It could happen again as it was market forces at work.
Falklands? There was certainly a screw up, but then North Korea has been making threats for over 50 years and never made good on them. Argentina was no different. We had no empire and our navy was based on fighting the USSR so our aircraft carriers, Ark Royal and Invincible were designed to operate only in the North Atlantic and North Sea. The country had been planning to operate only in those areas. Any other contemporary government figure that could have been in her position instead, such as Heath, Kinnock or Foot would have just given in and offered the Islanders a resettlement package and a dictator would have taken over
I'm the last person to try and say she was perfect, and towards the end of her tenure it was definitely time for her to go. Her voice grated; her hairstyle irritated. However, if there's a phrase that sums up her time as PM, it has to be: Cometh the hour, cometh the "man"
Feel free to take the p**s at that if you like
Your beardness, your wisdom knows no bounds, and I agree with 99% of what you say.
But, wouldn't South Yorkshire police have been better admitting that they didn't know what was happening (despite having CCTV to look for hooligans - surely if that can pick out yob's faces at 75 metres, it could tell a crush from a riot?). To then try to smear the fans as all being drunken animals was not right was it? Of course plenty of them would have had a pint or 4 on the way to the ground, but the fabrication that followed was indefensible surely?
It was not Mrs T's fault though!
But, wouldn't South Yorkshire police have been better admitting that they didn't know what was happening (despite having CCTV to look for hooligans - surely if that can pick out yob's faces at 75 metres, it could tell a crush from a riot?). To then try to smear the fans as all being drunken animals was not right was it? Of course plenty of them would have had a pint or 4 on the way to the ground, but the fabrication that followed was indefensible surely?
It was not Mrs T's fault though!
Glad you cleared that misunderstanding up.
simmo999
New member
Mr foot pushed and pushed Maggie, in the house's off parliament to invade and retake the Falklands, I was listening at the time on the radio. But she dithered for some time. She had been in secret talks with the Argentine junta to repatriate the population and share sovereignty. "But let's privatise her funeral, put it out to competetive tender, and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she would have wanted". X X
simmo999
New member
Just to say thanks who ever started this Maggie R I P. Post haven't had this much fun for years. Theirs life in the old dog yet. Love to all.
