Technical Panda 2008 welding

[Slow progress]

Hi All,

I’m looking at getting a Panda 100hp, I’ve now looked at 6 or 7 and all seem to need new sills on the outer but also new jacking points.

I think I’ve seen the outer sills for sale, but are replacements for the jacking points and inner sill sections readily available?

Many thanks,

David

 

[koalar]

Pretty normal after around 15 year if they arn loved

Off side, few inches forward from the rear wheel on the underside

They all go here followed by a year or so later on the other

Doing the job yourself or paying someone


Do both sides here in the UK looks to be over £200 in parts alone 71734758


Which is why there normally plated for an MOT

 

[irc]

Sadly, the 100hp does tend to suffer from mud getting caught behind the plastic sill cover and causing problems. Also, they tend to get jacked up wrong too, which splits the seam at the end of the sill, letting in water.
Watch out for the damage being deeper than you expect.
As for "jacking points", do you mean the underside of the sill (where you SHOULD put the jack), or the reinforcement panels (the ones with a big round hole in) or something else?
Beware the aftermarket sill panels - some are (kind of) OK, but others are wrong in most dimensions and profiles.
There are still 100hps around without sill problems, but they are definitely getting rare now. I suspect it will be the main cause of scrapping apart from accident damage.

 

[Slow progress]

Many thanks both.

Yes it would be in the UK and not done by me and painted before putting the covers back on again. So c.£200/side??

Jacking points, I assumed there was a different strengthening part behind the outer sill? That was the piece I wanted to understand.

So the original sill replacements are still available from Fiat? Or is there a recommendation on which aftermarket ones are best fit?

 

[jrkitching]

I’m looking at getting a Panda 100hp, I’ve now looked at 6 or 7 and all seem to need new sills on the outer but also new jacking points.

Finding a decent 100HP is challenging now; most have been driven too hard and neglected for too long by too many owners to be worth buying.

If you put the same money into a 1.2, you'll likely get a much better car, and the running costs will be lower too.

I suspect it will be the main cause of scrapping

I'd agree.

Once corrosion has set in to the point where structural metal needs significant patching or replacement, my own view is that the car would be better scrapped, for safety reasons.

Many of the repairs I've seen have been, at best, structurally dubious, and there could also be substantial unseen corrosion in other places.

A repair might get you an MOT, but how well is it going to protect the occupants in the event of a serious collision? You only have one life.

 

[irc]

Many of the repairs I've seen have been, at best, structurally dubious, and there could also be substantial unseen corrosion in other places.

Very true - I've seen some real stinkers, basically a rectangle of metal banged over the top of what is probably a weakened panel, fixed with dubious quality welding, and covered over with black stonechip.
I normally walk away from any Panda with sill problems (or visible repairs).
However, they CAN be done properly, and TBH a 100hp or a 4x4 might be worth paying someone to do properly. Not so much a plain old 1.2 (or 1.1) unless there's a strong emotional attachment.
Slightly different maths if doing it yourself, but then expect the job to grow once started.

I did do one for a friend (well, I supervised the body repairs and did the mechanical stuff myself!) and it was a top quality job, done by a guy who mostly works on classic cars and makes his own panels. With paint (including some paint correction on other panels) there wasn't much change from £1000, but it WAS a 100hp, AND it had a strong emotional attachment for its owner.
The total bill was nearer £5000 as all suspension, wheels, underbonnet (air intake, coolant pipes etc.) and interior were all returned to factory spec.
I had to buy 2 parts cars to get all the correct bits in good condition (still got one of them as a runabout).
And much of that work was at "mates rates".
It would have been cheaper to find a better one to start with, but she had owned it from new, and regretted selling it (to a spotty oik who "upgraded" it so much it was awful to drive) and bought it back at the first opportunity.

 

[koalar]

As above

Pay someone to do a decent job is not going to be cheap

£200 a side, no
You got that in part by the time you add, grinding disc, paint primer and laquar

Labour going to be at least double that on top

X2 for both sides

A dirty bodge patch stuck over the top is still £50 plus VAT that's not painted properly

It's a completely different deal if you can fabricate and weld, your labour is free and a bit of steel is peanut, the only real outlay would be the paint

OEM part will be very expensive, I haven't checked availability but you could ring the dealer with the part number above

As an example the third party axle is around £250 and would have to be modified for the 100HP a genuine one is no longer produced for thebut a standard one is over a thousand and would still have to be modified

It's been awhile since I been under the panda but I don't think there is anything easily and cheaply replaceable

This is the underside of a 500 but close enough


Any rot further inwards from the sill pinch weld is probably uneconomical to repair

A far as I remember when last looking at part numbers the floor pan of the 100HP was the same as the standard Panda

 

[koalar]

Way off topic

But will you be doing any of the mechanical work yourself

Cars at 15 years old will require things doing for example

Suspension arms
Rear Shocks
Struts
Springs
Drop links
Axle
Air con/climate control
Timing belts
Brake pads
Brake discs
Clutch
Bent wheels
Tyres
Clutch slave
Brake lines
Brake and clutch fluid
And so on


The parts for these cars are relatively cheap, but not all on 100HP as some are unique, but the labour isn't free


As an example someone recently had a garage to change the rear springs, a 5 minute job on a ramp with air tools, labour was £48. Which is fair. Your still paying ramp time, electric, experiance, and so on

You can offset some of the negatives by choosing a car that's had some of the bigger jobs recently done like

Timing belt
Clutch
Sills
Axle
Climate control

But this would narrow the search and there is only 1400 left on the road and 221 rising quickly on a SORN

If you aren't doing the majority of the work yourself a car under 10 year normally works out cheaper in the long run. But it's still a lottery but the odds swing more in your favor. I know it's sounding negative but it is what it is

 

[jrkitching]

If you aren't doing the majority of the work yourself a car under 10 year normally works out cheaper in the long run. But it's still a lottery but the odds swing more in your favor.

Well said.

The economics of new vs second owner vs midlife vs 'well used' are substantially influenced by two factors:

- how much maintenance and repair work you are capable and willing to do for yourself (and, increasingly these days, how much of it is actually possible to DIY)
- whether you need to use any kind of finance to make the purchase

and

if you're buying a car on a tight budget, or want to use an older car as a daily driver, keep it simple.

I know it's sounding negative but it is what it is

+1
for most people, buying a 15yr old 100HP today is probably not a great idea.

 

[irc]

The parts for these cars are relatively cheap, but not all on 100HP as some are unique,

100hp front suspension parts are supposed to be different, and much more expensive
People have been known to use standard parts from a 1.2, as they fit. But that's not how FIAT designed them.
Some "upgrade" suspension parts improve handling, some make it worse. Some make it so uncomfortable to drive that it defeats the point of having a 100hp in the first place.

100hp wheels are prone to minor buckling, usually on the inside. Causes vibration, and sometimes slow punctures, often randomly. Replacement originals are rare and are usually as bad. Not many aftermarket wheels are correct size and offset.

100hp tailgate glass is different, and some glass companies seem to struggle to get them.

But front bumpers seem to be the absolute worst... and it's rare to find a 100hp which hasn't either got a damaged one or has paint flaking problems from an aftermarket one.
I had to buy a whole car to get an undamaged original front bumper for a customer.
Aftermarket ones can sometimes be got, but they are not good quality and are made of a different plastic which is hard to get paint to stick to, almost impossible to repair if damaged.

(I have a 100hp with perfect sills, good unbent original wheels, original rear beam in really good condition, correct original spec suspension, and an original undamaged front bumper.
Unfortunately it's a red one, and the paint is atrocious (fading, lacquer peel, etc.), and therefore is fairly worthless for resale. On the other hand, it's still a hoot to drive on country lanes. And as its not really worth much I don't feel guilty about keeping it as a toy.)