Technical Leaky gearbox

[apliggins]

Hello
I have a 2014 Panda 4x4 Cross and it’s leaking rather strange pink oil from the rear of the gearbox where the drive / prop shaft comes out - I’m trying to find a replacement oil seal does anyone know where I can find one? Many thanks Andrew

 

[bugsymike]

Hello
I have a 2014 Panda 4x4 Cross and it’s leaking rather strange pink oil from the rear of the gearbox where the drive / prop shaft comes out - I’m trying to find a replacement oil seal does anyone know where I can find one? Many thanks Andrew

If you cannot fine the exact oil seal, then usually a bearing specialist or even eBay can supply by the dimensions Outside Diam. Inside diameter, width etc. There is often a six series number if visible.

 

[apliggins]

Thanks Bugsymike - I’ll get the spanner’s out and get the offending seal out - then get measuring !

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

@apliggins You might take a look at the ePER system (Fiat's part catalogue) that you can access from the top menu off this forum. The post 2012 Panda is called Nouvo Panda there. You need to focus in on the model and engine, which is not quite initiative but can be done. If I can, I'll post link to the right bit in a mo...

Edit: this link should be about right.

21220/50 - 4X4 AXLE SHAFTS - FLANGE OUTLET COVERS

FIAT NUOVA PANDA (2012-....)

eper.fiatforum.com

Clicking the 'magnifier' search icon alongside each part number will open a Google search for that part.

By the way, does anyone with a 4x4 TA know if the gear oil is pink? Sounds 'odd' to me, and I do half wonder if its actually coolant leaking down, since that IS pink... (Unlike the diesel 4x4, which has a separate transfer case, the TA 4x4 has the rear drive built in so any fluid in there is regular gearbox oil)

 

[TTR]

Eh up apliggins,

im intereested in your thread, I had a leak in myTA 2016 a while ago it was coming from around here:-

Does this look familiar.

I simply nipped up the extorx bolts , but I’m thinking of changing seal ( assuming there is one) behind the cover plate

be intererested on how you get on
Cheers

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks Bugsymike - I’ll get the spanner’s out and get the offending seal out - then get measuring !

I take it you are taking the pi** out of my suggestion? I did say at the start, "If you cannot fine the exact oil seal" meaning as a last resort and obviously you wish to keep car off the road to a minimum.
Another small point , assuming the oil is coming from the propshaft oil seal, often the reason the seal leaks is due to excess movement in the support bearing, or in extreme cases where dirt has got around the seal and damaged the rubber lip or the dirt has worn a groove in the area of the shaft that the seal is in contact with.

 

[apliggins]

No not taking anything - if non of the dealers want to help and several parts suppliers say they haven’t got one - your suggestion of taking the old one out is the only option left - your right in that the prop shaft centre bearing is also damaged and needs changing along with the rear shocks and springs

 

[apliggins]

Eh up apliggins,

im intereested in your thread, I had a leak in myTA 2016 a while ago it was coming from around here:-

View attachment 436365
Does this look familiar.

I simply nipped up the extorx bolts , but I’m thinking of changing seal ( assuming there is one) behind the cover plate

be intererested on how you get on
Cheers

Hi TTR
Yes that’s where my leak is and I’m pretty sure that the seal is at fault - my oil is a strange pinky colour that dries whiteish on my driveway ? Probably not the standard stuff that should be in the gearbox I’ll strip the prop and open up the gearbox to extract the offending seal - but looks a bit cool in South Yorkshire to do the job this weekend

 

[bugsymike]

I don't know what the ownership history is , but is it possible a previous owner has put some kind of gearbox "leak stopper" additive in which may account for the odd colour.
To try and avoid "down time" can you clean around the seal area and measure the housing diameter that the seal sits in and hopefully the shaft size that spins in it, the width of the seal is less important. Then maybe you could get a few nearest to the size to hopefully find one to do the job, as once you dig the old seal out , as you will know it will be unusable.

 

[TTR]

Eh up appliggins

have a watch of this might help



im interested as I’m now thinking im checking mine again - could be something else at play

let us know how you get on

ive done enough of late with my simple water pump change , so will see how you get on and lll learn .

hope its of use

 

[bugsymike]

Looking at the seal design in the video it does look a bit specialised so ideally the correct one required. I did hear the guy say he obtained a "pattern" oil so they must be out there somewhere.
Incidentally the spring thing he referred to is a tensioning ring often found in oil seals that keep the rubber lip in contact with the shaft.

 

[apliggins]

@apliggins You might take a look at the ePER system (Fiat's part catalogue) that you can access from the top menu off this forum. The post 2012 Panda is called Nouvo Panda there. You need to focus in on the model and engine, which is not quite initiative but can be done. If I can, I'll post link to the right bit in a mo...

Edit: this link should be about right.

21220/50 - 4X4 AXLE SHAFTS - FLANGE OUTLET COVERS

FIAT NUOVA PANDA (2012-....)

eper.fiatforum.com

Clicking the 'magnifier' search icon alongside each part number will open a Google search for that part.

By the way, does anyone with a 4x4 TA know if the gear oil is pink? Sounds 'odd' to me, and I do half wonder if its actually coolant leaking down, since that IS pink... (Unlike the diesel 4x4, which has a separate transfer case, the TA 4x4 has the rear drive built in so any fluid in there is regular gearbox oil)

That’s absolutely fantastic Heths Hillhopper straight to the seal I need - looks like it’s inGermany and might cost €50 to get to me but hey it’s all part of the fun
71772836 and I might treat myself to a new 71753083 just to make sure
Thank you very much - I will post an update when I do the job

 

[bugsymike]

That’s absolutely fantastic Heths Hillhopper straight to the seal I need - looks like it’s inGermany and might cost €50 to get to me but hey it’s all part of the fun
71772836 and I might treat myself to a new 71753083 just to make sure
Thank you very much - I will post an update when I do the job

Is this the same in UK ?
eBay item number:285586794109.

 

[apliggins]

Is this the same in UK ?
eBay item number:285586794109.

Yes right again - sorry it’s stoneacre as they are the ones who refuse to pick up the phone but they can add 5 x ‘0’ to make it very difficult to find on eBay - I guess £40 is a bit better than €50 so I’ve ordered one
Thanks again bugsymike

 

[bugsymike]

Yes right again - sorry it’s stoneacre as they are the ones who refuse to pick up the phone but they can add 5 x ‘0’ to make it very difficult to find on eBay - I guess £40 is a bit better than €50 so I’ve ordered one
Thanks again bugsymike

Just had a thought re your "5 x 0" bit .
Many years ago when I ran Iveco Daily 2.8's, parts from the Iveco Dealers were fairly pricey as although a trade customer of the Ford side of the same company the Iveco side didn't reflect that on the same monthly invoice, until I found in some cases I could obtain the same part from the Fiat Dealers by omitting the 100 on the front of the Iveco part number it then became the Fiat part number, mainly engine rebuild parts, conrods, bearing shells, piston rings, gaskets etc. Sadly now no longer the case.

 

[apliggins]

Well here is the new seal so everyone can see what we’re dealing with - it is indeed a rather special / complicated design - I guess that’s why I paid £40 for it !
I’ve decided to replace the prop shaft at the same time as changing the seal so I’m now on the hunt for a good 2nd hand one then it’s all systems go

 

[TTR]

Eh up,

to-be honest it looks fairly standard to me, much like a main crank bearing shaft seal, just a bit bigger

bet there’s not many used so pushes up the production price

keep us informed as I’m keen to see how you get on

am making notes of the parts your using

 

[apliggins]

Well work on panda has commenced rear shocks and springs have been changed - well done fiat for welding the 18mm nut on the bottom bracket for the shockers
Managed to buy 18mm socket but my best efforts won’t budge it so wound out the bolt to discover the nut is welded oh how we laughed.
Next question before we start to replace the prop shaft and do the gearbox seal is
Where on the gearbox casting is the ‘fill’ hole ? Does it really need 2.7 lts of oil? I’ve high lighted to drain plug but I’m struggling to locate the full one
Thank you

 

[Panda IIs]

View attachment 438635Well work on panda has commenced rear shocks and springs have been changed - well done fiat for welding the 18mm nut on the bottom bracket for the shockers
Managed to buy 18mm socket but my best efforts won’t budge it so wound out the bolt to discover the nut is welded oh how we laughed.
Next question before we start to replace the prop shaft and do the gearbox seal is
Where on the gearbox casting is the ‘fill’ hole ? Does it really need 2.7 lts of oil? I’ve high lighted to drain plug but I’m struggling to locate the full one
Thank you

Do we know if this is a TA or Diesel MJ??

I think this is the PTO for the MJ? Which is separate from the gearbox and has own oil. TA shares gearbox oil as stated or inferred above. This difference most definitely affects where you fill! Apologies if I missed the engine type in the thread above. @Herts Hillhopper has some photos in an earlier thread I believe.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Do we know if this is a TA or Diesel MJ??

I think this is the PTO for the MJ? Which is separate from the gearbox and has own oil. TA shares gearbox oil as stated or inferred above. This difference most definitely affects where you fill! Apologies if I missed the engine type in the thread above. @Herts Hillhopper has some photos in an earlier thread I believe.

He does indeed - but I think this is a TwinAir where the PTU is integral with the gearbox. I'll find the post though as there were photos from someone else about the fill/drain in the TA version. [Edit - post was here - but note this is the MJ, where the PTU os a separate unit and so the drain is in a different place) https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/manual-gearbox-oil-filler-drain-plug-locations.497039/post-4657568 . You might also look here where the diagram shows the fill/level plug. A comment three or so further down does seem to confirm 2.7 litres of gear oil https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-cross-gearbox-ptu-fill-drain-location.501254/post-4713162 ]

Re-reading this thread... @apliggins you say the fluid that drips is pink and then dries white on the drive. That sounds very much as if its coolant that's dripping, which is bright pink in the car and dries with a white 'fluffy' crust as it evaporates. I assume you've ruled out coolant leaks that may by chance just be running down the back of the engine and gearbox...

As to the quantity, 2.7 litres [edit] tallies with eedback in the earlier post linked above - here https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-cross-gearbox-ptu-fill-drain-location.501254/post-4713162. My handbook shows the TwinAir with 4x4 using 1.65kg (yup, weight, not litres) of Tutela Transmission Technyx, an SAE 75W-85 synthetic gearbox oil, and gear oil is pretty heavy stuff.

It looks like you have found the drain (and that tallies with this post - https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/manual-gearbox-oil-filler-drain-plug-locations.497039/ . The fill is on the front of the gearbox, alongside where the reverse light switch is (a big hex-socket-headed screw). The fill level is the point where oil runs out of that filler hole with the car sat level.