Technical JTD Airbox / Oil Catch Tank / Vapour Trap

[blu73]

Re: jtd airbox

tbh it sounds awesome.. also the hole is on the better side of the air filter for it to be so at least its still being filtered. I'm not too worried about it other than when it starts being all rainy again, being that the hole is right on bottom and i don't have the under-trays fitted, the air filter is gonna get very wet very quickly

 

[Argonought]

Just done a big merge as mostly all related.

 

[HZN]

So in that oil catch tank comes only one hose?

 

[Oakley28]

The WHOLE thing of mine fell off. SO the air filter is completely exposed. And it doesnt sound awesome, its sounds horrible lol.

 

[blu73]

gutted, i knocked the catch tank bit off and had to do a roadside bodge with a bit of rope, which it tied around the pipe on the tank and then around one of the intercooler pipes. So far its held it but i'm no boy scout and am rubbish at knots lol. needs fixing asap really.

@ HZN: thats a good point, but as far as i can tell from lying on floor in carpark, yes one pipe only unless one of mine has fallen off and disappeared without me noticing, can't see how it'd work without a breather on it. Perhaps its supposed to vent back into the airbox above it. Not noticed any smells from the car which you'd expect if venting to atmosphere

 

[Argonought]

So in that oil catch tank comes only one hose?

YES - but Fiat refer to it as a 'vapour trap' rather than an 'oil catch tank' - which I think is more related to motor racing :chin:


Come on you guys, please read the thread as you're asking questions already answered

 

[blu73]

well i gotta swap it for new one soon so will check how much oil is in there.

 

[HZN]

So only one hose. Great! Thanks a lot guys!

 

[rat20v]

just had a look on eper the 8v is different looks like no seperator tank.

cant see where the breather gets over to induction side if it does?but i think mine joins back onto pipe 11 i think it is on here.

p.s.stuart this diagram may help with your k+n filter change the maf is 7 ,

can i ask what is pipe 10 for? just wondering if you could do away with the whole setup from turbo, use silicon and then use a pipe take off fitted on the silicon hose for pipe 11, and tap into pipe 11 for the catch tank and remove the filter box for a cone filter easier to change in future and silicon should last better than rubber.

cheers

robin

 

[Davren]

Pipe 10 is to drain any oil particles to the catch tank shown attached to the bottom of the air filter housing.
.

 

[sussexa]

Not sure if pipe 10 is drawn correctly mine has only 1 pipe straight from turbo inlet pipe to oil vapour trap, ive seen one off an 8v also that was same.
As above pipe 10 is shown with a middle hose branching off ? Is it there on any jtd models ?
Also the system is using the low pressure(slight vacuum ) from the compressor inlet to evacuate the crankcase breather system.
You could bypass turbo inlet, but youd need to fit another catch tank with a filter to vent crankcase pressure to atmosphere, you couldnt just pipe direct to vapour trap as its sealed so your engine would soon start blowing seals.
Also any excessive pressure build up in the crankcase pressure is bad for the turbo as it can resist the oil pressure to bearing and in effect reduce actual differential pressure of oil through the bearing.

 

[rat20v]

Pipe 10 is to drain any oil particles to the catch tank shown attached to the bottom of the air filter housing.
.

so i could do away with the whole pipe layout and create my own one from silicon, use a pipe take off for pipe 11, and then another one for pipe 10 leading to a nice catch tank? just thinking of something for the future, also does it matter if the maf is at a angle? thinking of building my own setup from silicon pipework and angling the maf up to fit the cone filter directly onto it.

i know its pointless to some but i like showy stuff even if it is just a diesel estate.

thanks

Robin

 

[rat20v]

Not sure if pipe 10 is drawn correctly mine has only 1 pipe straight from turbo inlet pipe to oil vapour trap, ive seen one off an 8v also that was same.
As above pipe 10 is shown with a middle hose branching off ? Is it there on any jtd models ?
Also the system is using the low pressure(slight vacuum ) from the compressor inlet to evacuate the crankcase breather system.
You could bypass turbo inlet, but youd need to fit another catch tank with a filter to vent crankcase pressure to atmosphere, you couldnt just pipe direct to vapour trap as its sealed so your engine would soon start blowing seals.
Also any excessive pressure build up in the crankcase pressure is bad for the turbo as it can resist the oil pressure to bearing and in effect reduce actual differential pressure of oil through the bearing.

so I could keep everything the same, but replace with silicon, so have a pipe take off for pipe 11 and pipe 10, connect pipe 11up as it should and have the catch tank with pipe 10 attached, would you seal the secondary hole on the catch tank or fit a breather filter?

 

[Davren]

so i could do away with the whole pipe layout and create my own one from silicon, use a pipe take off for pipe 11, and then another one for pipe 10 leading to a nice catch tank? just thinking of something for the future, also does it matter if the maf is at a angle? thinking of building my own setup from silicon pipework and angling the maf up to fit the cone filter directly onto it.

Bearing in mind what sussexa says above.... yes.

I can't think where the tee'd off pipe from pipe 10 goes either.

The MAF consists of a hot wire air flow meter and a solid state air temperature sensor, so it doesn't matter what angle you mount it. I suspect it's normally mounted horizontally with the sensors at the top to prevent contamination of the sensors.
.

 

[rat20v]

Bearing in mind what sussexa says above.... yes.

I can't think where the tee'd off pipe from pipe 10 goes either.

The MAF consists of a hot wire air flow meter and a solid state air temperature sensor, so it doesn't matter what angle you mount it. I suspect it's normally mounted horizontally with the sensors at the top to prevent contamination of the sensors.
.

Thanks Chaps. I would keep the same set up just done in silicon instead, also the original plastic oil vapour trap/catchtank has only one hole, so could i on the new catch tank seal one hole up or would it be better to have a small breather filter on the other hole?

Thanks
Robin

 

[sussexa]

Search on catch tanks
If your reproducing exactly in silicone and just adding a catch tank before it reaches the turbo inlet it has to be sealed, pipe from crankase in and pipe to turbo inlet out, no vent filter.
If you want to do away with feeding back into turbo inlet it would be
Crankcase breather pipe to catch tank in catch tank out has a vent filter on it ,
The turbo inlet pipe then can do away with 1 hole in from crankase breather.
The vapour trap pipe and tank could be kept , i have seen users deleting that also though.
Think on this , you will smell oil vapours , if that filter blinds or freezes and blinds there go your seals, if your cone filter sucks in a load of water and youve deleted the vapour trap, theres no where for the water to go except straight into compressor wheel and possible damage to that plus if it gets to engine and hydrolocks its game over rods through block.
Think that that vapour trap will take maybe a litre of water or more before it fills up to the turbo pipe level?
If it really gulps water in it may pass over the hole that leads to the vapour trap and not go down there anyway.
Think it through with all the facts, do a few searches and im sure youll be ok.
Ill find a few pics after for you
Anyone remember gsr intake silicone hose? Did it remove t off pipes?

 

[sussexa]

Heres one no visable breather teed in a jtd
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=147273&d=1341133821

 

[rat20v]

Search on catch tanks
If your reproducing exactly in silicone and just adding a catch tank before it reaches the turbo inlet it has to be sealed, pipe from crankase in and pipe to turbo inlet out, no vent filter.
If you want to do away with feeding back into turbo inlet it would be
Crankcase breather pipe to catch tank in catch tank out has a vent filter on it ,
The turbo inlet pipe then can do away with 1 hole in from crankase breather.
The vapour trap pipe and tank could be kept , i have seen users deleting that also though.
Think on this , you will smell oil vapours , if that filter blinds or freezes and blinds there go your seals, if your cone filter sucks in a load of water and youve deleted the vapour trap, theres no where for the water to go except straight into compressor wheel and possible damage to that plus if it gets to engine and hydrolocks its game over rods through block.
Think that that vapour trap will take maybe a litre of water or more before it fills up to the turbo pipe level?
If it really gulps water in it may pass over the hole that leads to the vapour trap and not go down there anyway.
Think it through with all the facts, do a few searches and im sure youll be ok.
Ill find a few pics after for you
Anyone remember gsr intake silicone hose? Did it remove t off pipes?

Thanks Sussexa, that makes perfect sense, I think I would keep it as it is but in silicon and using a catch tank for the vapour trap that way as you said if water gets sucked in there may be more of a chance it going into the trap and not damaging any parts of the engine.

also the whole crankcase breathing still confuses me a little, but in that eper diagram, is item 11 where you would normally put a catch can inline, I take it that comes from the crankcase to the inlet?

 

[sussexa]

Yes i have one in line in hose 11
The 16v has an extra oil separator at the rear of the engine that drains oil back to sump and fumes over to the turbo inlet
My catch tank sits over the exhaust manifold and just sits inline
Ive kept intake as std so far but need to change soon
Look in 80mm maf thread
Ive made up an adaptor to keep the breather and vapour trap but modified the way the two join to hopefully reduce further oil vapour entering turbo inlet.
Cant comment yet as still not fitted

 

[sussexa]

Here
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/325546-jtd-maf-upgrade-70mm-80mm.html
As you can see/read there is not a lot of space to get these mods done in ,
Looking at bits on ebay you remember lots of space but when you come to offer them up on the car everything seems to have grown, or engine bay shrunk.