Technical Help needed! Vernier Pulleys

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

yeah thats what the one they sent me measures 113.94mm from tooth to tooth and 109.25 from dip to dip (38 teeth) so your right they sent me the right part for the seicento SPI but for some reason i have the MPI set up with cambelt i think looking at Kritips as its identical.

Thanks for replies.

Well im having fun trying to actually find someone that will do a vernier pulley for my car. I dont even think piper cams make a vernier pulley for the MPI seicento so therefore i believe im stuck.

Ill have to wait for piper to get back to me about this vernier pulley i think they may have a solution like fitting a outer gear to the centre of the one for the seicento SPI (not my one :bang: ) / Cinq.

Yeah if you could do that Kritip for the MPI seicento so i can compare it would be much apreciated as i said my cam gear has 46 teeth and measures 115.66mm from tooth to tooth and 110.46 from dip to dip across the gear.

So if i do go down the route of changing the water pump pulley and the crank pulley ill need the cam belt that i sent back wont I? :bang:

This is getting better and better.

While im waiting me and dad are going to drop the gearbox out and put in the new ebc clutch and lightwieght flywheel and new clutch cable so i got a bit to do while i wait.

Anyway ill report back when i know a bit more and thanks again for all you time and help.

Many thanks
Matt

 

[arc]

yeah, you'll need the other cam belt.

the waterpumps are cheap enough to buy new, and you can get a crank pulley off any cinq sporting, punto55/60/75. Wouldnt suprise me if someone has a an engine in bits they'd send you the pulley from. I'm sure ive seen a p75 engine in classifieds, if not - someone will have an 1108 they pulled out sitting around. I gave my 1108 block away.
Wonder if Alex has the 1108 block out of his car still?

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

Yeah just been talking to dad whose working on the cylinder head at the moment.

He said we will go for keeping the vernier pulley and changing the other gears as i really dont think piper make anything that resembles what i need.

Ok so if I phone up fiat what parts do i ask for as i could do with a new water pump anyway. Do I ask for the water pump for a cinquecento sporting 1.1 and the gear, and the crank pulley of a cinquencento 1.1 and then obviously the belt from a cinquecento sporting as the pitch is different? Would that be correct?

Also in theory the belts should be aproximately the same length souldnt they as not much should have changed spacer or engine wise should it other than the size of the gears for water pump cam pulley etc.

Thanks everyone thats replied this is a big help.

Ill take some piccys and do a progress report/thread once everythings back together.

Many Thanks
Matt

 

[arc]

the engine in my cinq is the full engine from a punto75.

It is the same belt pitch as the origonal cinquecento sporting stuff.

the belt is a different length for the 1242 based engines though. so if you are stopping 1108, then you need to get the cinq sporting gear.

so basically, you need the cam belt pulley for the crank, cam belt and waterpump from a cinquecento sporting.

 

[balidey]

If its possible could you measure the cam gears diameter from tooth to tooth and from dip to dip (these are some of the measurements piper asked for).

I know you've already got these dimensions now, but TBH there is not much chance of them being different diameters, if they were then the gearing effect would be wrong. ie, one turn of crank is half a turn on the cam (or is it the other way round?) If the diameter was different then the cams would go out of phase after half a turn and would get worse at every turn of the engine. The cam pulley circumference is twice the crank pulley circumference.

The difference is the belt pitch, and if Piper only do one pitch (which i am sure they would, otherwise they wouldn't have just sent you one, they surely would have asked the question) then you just need match everything to the cam pulley.

Looks like i'll be facing the same (potential) problems later in the summer too.

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

Yeah i think you may well do.

 

[Brooky]

While im waiting me and dad are going to drop the gearbox out and put in the new ebc clutch and lightwieght flywheel and new clutch cable so i got a bit to do while i wait.
Many thanks
Matt

How much does your flywheel weigh??

Also i have just dropped my 1108 engine out of a scrap cinq,so if there any engine bits....just ask

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

The flywheel weighs aproximately 6.5kg or 14.5lbs. I had 4.5Lbs or 2Kg removed from the flywheel. It now weighs 10Lbs or 4.5Kg.

IIRC i used arcs picture of his flywheel before and after and gave that to a mate and he just copied that. I only had weight taken from the back of the flywheel and have had it balanced externally. (without crank)

Thanks

Matt

 

[cc1]

You should have checked the balance of the flywheel before lightening, then you'd seen how far out of ballance the crank is.

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

Ive asked this before, but people on this forum believe that its not too far out and the skim was done dead flat as i know and saw how the guy set it up in his jig.

Thanks
Matt

 

[randomizered]

Here we go, this is my mpi one:

110.6 mm

115.75 mm

Cheers,

Kristian

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

Yeah i have the MPI one fitted to my car,

Thanks for that Kristian, Due to not being able to source a vernier pulley for the MPI i have decided to convert back to the setup on the cinquecento.

Many thanks for all your help

Matt

 

[Brooky]

You should have checked the balance of the flywheel before lightening, then you'd seen how far out of ballance the crank is.

When fiat built the engines, did they balance the parts all together or in bits i.e flywheel attached to the crank.

Ive just machined my flywheel and need to balance it,just woundering because if they did balance them all together then it would knock it all out of balance.

 

[randomizered]

Do they even bother to balance it, or are the tolerances high enought there is no need, and/or costs too much?

If they do, i would imagine they do the bits seperatly. My reason for this thinking is that there is no locating key on the flywheel is there, so you could put it back in many different positions..therefore potentially unbalancing the entire thing. At least i don't remember a locating key when doing mine.

KRistian

 

[Brooky]

thats alright then.i better get balancing then.but still tempted to mill some slots in it just to get a little bit more weight off it. its about 2.5/3kg lighter but still not happy

There no locating key,just six bolts so any position can be possible

 

[GhostWKD]

6 bolts only line up one way iirc, they arnt perfectly spaced out in a circle

 

[rallycinq]

Even if the holes were evenly spaced you would mark the correct position for the flywheel, just as you'd mark which rod goes where and which piston goes with which rod.

Cheers

D

 

[GhostWKD]

Even if the holes were evenly spaced you would mark the correct position for the flywheel, just as you'd mark which rod goes where and which piston goes with which rod.

Cheers

D

hadnt thought of that, correct also

My experience of the flywheel was just fitting a stilo clutch/flywheel, which luckily only went on one way and has been fine

 

[Brooky]

what if your lightening a spare flywheel and balance it, then swap it for the one on your engine??

like i am

 

[Brooky]

also sticking to the title of the thread... Vernier pulleys, i now want one as im fitting a ported head and 280 cam. a friend has strongly sugested that i get one as he's built a fair few performance engines and knows his stuff.

So has anybody got one for a spi kicking about or should i get one new??