Technical Fiat 500 2012 Expansion tank Level

[sammy19]

Just bought this Fiat and have a question about the coolant fill level, the expansion tank is attached to the side of the radiator it part of the fill tube and it has the max an min marks on it, what is the cold fill level max min or half way between the two.
Thanks for any help.

 

[s130]

Max level is normally for COLD fill. Level will go a little above max when hot. Water does not expand much so the max level when cold is designed to allow for water vapour / air expansion without exceeding around 7 psi at which point the expansion tank/radiator cap will vent.

 

[sammy19]

Hi thanks for your reply I have read so many opinions about this there was an air lock in this system when I bought the car and I took it back and the garage they drained it and refilled to the middle of the two marks and now when hot the level is on the max mark, the pressure marked on the filler cap is 1.4 bar which is about 21 psi. This is confusing, I do not know what the cold fill level should be.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Check the level when the engine is cold. As long as it's above the MIN mark and below the MAX it's fine. I tend to keep ours about half way between the two then you'll find it creeps up towards the MAX mark when hot. It's really not that critical. Running with the level well below MIN is asking for trouble though. Of course no engine likes running with too little coolant but the FIRE engines in particular don't like it.

Mrs J has just returned from her Thursday swim so I popped out and took some pictures. It's difficult to see through the white plastic:

But if you shine a bright torch against it so the light goes through it:

then it's quite easy to see:

I came across this light in Lidl:

It has magnetic mounts on it's angleable base and back and very bright LEDs and I use it - and drop it - a lot. Seems pretty indestructible so I bought another one the other day! Much better than my old mains lead light and no chance of electrocuting yourself if in the rain or you drop it!

 

[koalar]

Owner manual

The coolant level shall be checked with cold engine and shall be within the MIN and MAX marks on the tank.
If the level is low, pour slowly a mixture of 50% distilled water and 50% PARAFLU UP of the FL Selenia Group through the filler neck A until the level reaches MAX.
A 50-50 mixture of PARAFLU UP and dis- tilled water gives freeze protection to –35°C.
For particularly hard climate conditions,
we recommend use of a 60% Paraflu UP and 40% demineralized water mixture.


Which I read as to the MAX when cold

 

[s130]

Hi thanks for your reply I have read so many opinions about this there was an air lock in this system when I bought the car and I took it back and the garage they drained it and refilled to the middle of the two marks and now when hot the level is on the max mark, the pressure marked on the filler cap is 1.4 bar which is about 21 psi. This is confusing, I do not know what the cold fill level should be.

If labelled 1.4 bar then this is OK. I was thinking of older Fiats (Strada, Coupe, Tempa, Tipo) which were typically 7 psi.

Pesonally I would fill when completely cold to the max mark and keep an eye on how/if the level moves.

Sometimes on later cars it can take quite some time for the cooling system to settle down so you will probably see some water loss, then top up, then a little extra loss, etc. This happened on my 500X after my cam belt and water pump change.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

It took me so long to get the pictures that s130 got his post in before me. I certainly don't have any problem with what he's recommending. If you fill to the MAX mark when cold the level will rise into the "free" space above it when she's hot and do no harm. If you substantially overfill it - well above MAX when cold then coolant will be expelled through the vent cap when the engine gets up to temp, shouldn't do any harm but is just a bit messy.

More than anything else, keep a regular eye on the level - I check ours most Saturday mornings - that way you'll likely pick up on a slowly developing leak and be able to do something about it before engine overheating takes place and maybe damages the head gasket.

 

[sammy19]

The garage that refilled has filled it to half way between min an max when cold and it sits on max when hot and the air lock is not there now and it does seem to be working correctly, the heater was not functioning as it should before the garage did their work but that is ok now, I was just wondering if filling to half way between min and max when cold was correct, after reading many opinions some saying fill cold to min and some saying fill cold to max I am confused .

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The garage that refilled has filled it to half way between min an max when cold and it sits on max when hot and the air lock is not there now and it does seem to be working correctly, the heater was not functioning as it should before the garage did their work but that is ok now, I was just wondering if filling to half way between min and max when cold was correct, after reading many opinions some saying fill cold to min and some saying fill cold to max I am confused .

Now I'm confused! Are you saying you're still confused or are you "happy" now?

The level would have to fall a fair bit below MIN to cause any real problems, so as long as it's above MIN then mechanically the car is going to be very happy. As to the ideal level, I think anywhere from half way between MAX and MIN and bang on MAX is fine. All done when cold of course as you need to be careful if removing any radiator fill cap on a hot engine to avoid scalding. Just fill it to MAX if you're going to obsess about maximum reserve quantity in the case of a small leak developing?

 

[sammy19]

Thanks for all your replies, I will leave it as is for now and keep an eye on the level.

 

[koalar]

I’m missing something obvious


Hot and cold coolant level does not alter that much, hardly noticeable


40 gallon at 0 degrees Celsius expands by 1/2 gallon at 90 degrees

If it’s jumping up and down it’s more likely to be air in the system expanding

 

[sammy19]

It was jumping up and down because because it had air in the system. I took it back to the garage
i bought from a d they drained it and refilled it with new coolant and now everything including the heater or climate control as it is works has it should. The garage have filled the coolant to halfway between the full mark and the low mark and that is where it stays until the car is used on returning from a journey the coolant is on the full mark. The question I am asking is should the coolant be filled when cold to the full mark or the low mark.. There is sufficient capacity in the expansion tank for it to be filled to the full mark and still to be able to expand when hot comfortably. the problem I am having is that when I ask this question some say it should be filled when cold to the mid point between high and low and some say it should be filled to the high mark.

 

[koalar]

It was jumping up and down because because it had air in the system. I took it back to the garage
i bought from a d they drained it and refilled it with new coolant and now everything including the heater or climate control as it is works has it should. The garage have filled the coolant to halfway between the full mark and the low mark and that is where it stays until the car is used on returning from a journey the coolant is on the full mark. The question I am asking is should the coolant be filled when cold to the full mark or the low mark.. There is sufficient capacity in the expansion tank for it to be filled to the full mark and still to be able to expand when hot comfortably. the problem I am having is that when I ask this question some say it should be filled when cold to the mid point between high and low and some say it should be filled to the high mark.

Fill when Cold
To
the MAX mark

As per the owners manual

That’s how it’s been designed

 

[sammy19]

Extract from manual.
Coolant Level The coolant expansion bottle provides a quick visual method for determining that the coolant level is adequate. With the engine off and cold, the level of the coolant (antifreeze) in the bottle should be between the “MAX” and “MIN” lines marked on the bottle.

 

[koalar]

next paragraph

Top up to MAX

I don’t worry a bit below MAX

But MIN is too low on a Panda which has a similar radiator

 

[sammy19]

so you agree with my last post.

 

[koalar]

so you agree with my last post.

On cars with the expansion tank on the side of the radiator

You want them pretty close to MAX

There’s just under 5L and it’s roughly 1L from MIN to MAX. Percentage wise it’s a fair loss.

Once the level goes below the hight of the heater matrix it will not circulate as originally designed to.

If everything is 100% you just top it to the MAX and you shouldn’t need to add any until the next coolant change. If it needs constantly topped up something not right

The level shouldn’t be changing. The difference between cold and hot due to expansion is only a few millilitres. If it changing height there air or gas getting into the system

 

[sammy19]

As I have written previously when I bought this car it had a problem the heater was not working properly the water level was low and I had to keep topping it up I took it back to the dealer and explained this to them , they took it in decided it had an air lock drained the coolant flushed it and refilled it with the coolant . When I got home I let it cool overnight and checked the coolant level, it was half way between max and min after 300 more miles it is just the same as it was after the work had been done. It has not changed the coolant level still half way between max and min, the dealership must have considered that this is the correct level, the reason for my post was to get more opinions as to if the level being half way between the two marks is correct. I am no nearer understanding if this is the case because of the conflicting answers I have had to my question. The answers have had on this Forum have been similar to the answers from else ware ie conflicting.

 

[koalar]

As I have written previously when I bought this car it had a problem the heater was not working properly the water level was low and I had to keep topping it up I took it back to the dealer and explained this to them , they took it in decided it had an air lock drained the coolant flushed it and refilled it with the coolant . When I got home I let it cool overnight and checked the coolant level, it was half way between max and min after 300 more miles it is just the same as it was after the work had been done. It has not changed the coolant level still half way between max and min, the dealership must have considered that this is the correct level, the reason for my post was to get more opinions as to if the level being half way between the two marks is correct. I am no nearer understanding if this is the case because of the conflicting answers I have had to my question. The answers have had on this Forum have been similar to the answers from else ware ie conflicting.

0010T20 ENGINE COOLANT - CHANGE - Fiat - NUOVA 500 - eLearn - 4CarData

 

[koalar]

Both elearn and owners manual ask for it to be topped to max

Will it be okay at half probably

But why not after decades of development by Fiat, do want to do anything other that asked