Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[smc4761]

I hope your car is fixed. It is a very strange situation with the 1.2 engine. I tested a 15 plate 1.2 500 & Panda inJune. Both were fine. My own 15 plate 1.2 500 is also fine – not aspeed machine but I can drive it anywhere and have never had any issues withdead spots or poor throttle response. Ican’t believe that cars produced after mine (mine was in the dealers stock) arestill having this issue. What is Fiatplaying at? If they have a fix why arethey not spelling it out to all dealers to implement it when needed? It does not sit well on the reputation of thedealers or Fiat and I hope that my car continues to behave well (3000 miles withno problems so far).

I think one of the reasons they will not roll it out is

that means they have to admit their mistake
the cost involved in recalling the cars

I am sure there are plenty of people out there who just accept the situation. If It was not for this forum I would be unaware of the issue.


Bigchrome, thanks for advising. If it is resolved I would be grateful as would others if you could advise what the name of the fix is and we can then go the our dealers and have them fix our cars

 

[Bigchrome]

I think one of the reasons they will not roll it out is

that means they have to admit their mistake
the cost involved in recalling the cars

I am sure there are plenty of people out there who just accept the situation. If It was not for this forum I would be unaware of the issue.


Bigchrome, thanks for advising. If it is resolved I would be grateful as would others if you could advise what the name of the fix is and we can then go the our dealers and have them fix our cars

Spot on assessment in my opinion. Volkswagen level of scandal to come out and say "We made our cars undriveable in pursuit of lower emissions, then fobbed off our customers for years". It's actually worse in my eyes.

I will revert back as soon as I get some time with the car, thinking of leaving work early to go and see.

 

[Ricardo Silva]

Last week a friend of mine asked me to drive his car home (lets say he was not drunk at all). The car is a opel corsa 1.2 80hp from 2007. Even if both of my fiats are only 60hp they are a lot better to drive and the throttle response is faster and more precise. The corsa behaved just like the 500 1.2 i've driven last summer, it seemed that the engine wasn't directly connected to the throttle and there was a huge gap between my intention and the car reaction to accelerate. I believe fiat problema is also a problema in many differrent models but maybe we are more aware of that because this engine was better in the past.

 

[RussH]

Last week a friend of mine asked me to drive his car home (lets say he was not drunk at all). The car is a opel corsa 1.2 80hp from 2007. Even if both of my fiats are only 60hp they are a lot better to drive and the throttle response is faster and more precise. The corsa behaved just like the 500 1.2 i've driven last summer, it seemed that the engine wasn't directly connected to the throttle and there was a huge gap between my intention and the car reaction to accelerate. I believe fiat problema is also a problema in many differrent models but maybe we are more aware of that because this engine was better in the past.

I had one for a day or two as a loan car. From memory a 2013 car.

My experience is exactly the same. Absolutely gutless and very poor throttle response.

Apart from that I quite like them, nice build quality and as a new or second hand car so cheap. Not the 1.2 though

 

[Bigchrome]

Ok! So I got the car back after the update and there does indeed appear to be a difference. Unfortunately I can't test drive it extensively as I've transferred my insurance to the new car... But I did take it to a very steep hill on the way home and can confirm that it can now easily manage hills in first, and can reverse up steep hills (with just a bit of juddering).

Before, there used to be a noticeable hump at 3k RPM where a whole load of extra grunt would kick in (and where I had to stick the revs to take off before), now the fix has this masquerading as losing that hump - In reality I think that it just has so much extra torque below this as to bring it back to a normal torque curve.

Now, the garage would NOT tell me the name of the software update. I asked.. at least 6 times in different ways for the name of the update or the TSB that resulted in the update. "The mechanic was busy", "I'll get it for you tomorrow, remind me", "We'd have to go in to the system and click through all the links to find it" are just some of the excuses I heard. I REALLY prodded too. I asked if it was a custom update or something, joked about not caring if they reverted to EU5 spec and didn't want to tell me, asked if it was the updated to the 2016 car spec. They would say NOTHING. Even the mechanic, who was a fellow petrolhead and I had built up a little bit of a rapport with wouldn't tell me. So much for that.

So! Issue resolved. My clocks managed to die during the update, which leaves my tire pressure warning and engine warning light stuck on and glowing, which means I've got to go back on Monday or Tuesday and get those replaced. All in all, my 5th or 6th time back to the garage.
Do I have any recourse to just get rid of this car at this point? I really have no time for it any more.

 

[Mercky]

Hi Big Chrome, are you Dublin based? What dealer are you using out of interest?

 

[Bigchrome]

Hi Big Chrome, are you Dublin based? What dealer are you using out of interest?

Cork! Dan Seaman's. They've actually been pretty reasonable in helping me get to the bottom of it in fairness.

Still feel shafted. Car that's well over half my yearly salary sitting in the driveway that I can't find a buyer for. Even though it drives great now, It wouldn't be economical to get rid of the replacement I got and would be a PITA to switch insurance back again.

A friend of mine purchased the same model from the dealer at the same time as me and I've run a diagnostic on his car, logging RPM, HP, Torque, Accelerator pedal position, throttle position. I'll run one on my own when I get a chance and compare, although I'm not sure the tool I'm using is sensitive enough to pick up on it. Would be more than willing to rolling road test if anyone in the ROI/close to Cork knows somewhere to do it.

 

[typecastboy]

Do you only get software updates if you have a service? What if you don't get your servicing done at a dealers?

 

[Super Uwe]

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/433095-new-panda-opinions-experiences-3.html

I guess this is kind of related to this whole thread in the sense that the OP found a new(ish) 1.2 Panda they liked and test drove it without any problems at all.

As I advised to the OP, if you do have your heart set on getting a 1.2 then it may be better getting a stock/nearly new model that you can actually test drive yourself. At least then you can be 100% sure about your purchase if you do the basic tests to check it out.

Though you would imagine a brand new factory ordered one would be alright now, surely?!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

What if you don't get your servicing done at a dealers?

Then you'll need to go to the dealer and ask them to do the update. Not sure if they'll charge or not however

 

[Vipus]

Hi, I'm new here and have read the thread avidly looking for a cure to the poor hill start performance. I have to confess that it is not I but my daughter who owns the 500. However, I am still greatly concerned with the dangerous hill start /climb situation, as I watch here try to pull away on the hill on which we live. Apparently, she was given a remap, but no better what so ever. Imagine my delight when 'Bigchrome' said that his had been fixed, yet my dismay when he was unable to ascertain what they has actually done to fix his problem. Is there any way that this could be further tracked down from 'Dan Seaman's' garage, as to my understanding they are the only people who seem to have eliminated the problem. Possibly being approached by the 'Fiat Forum' on behalf of it's members.

 

[John202020]

We have a 59 plate 1.2 whilst there is a lack of torque below 3k I've never had an issue pulling away clutch control being the key, if you want it to go at say 50 in 5th you need third then forth up to 5k then the almost 70hp can be felt and moves quite well?

 

[Officina red]

Hi, I'm new here and have read the thread avidly looking for a cure to the poor hill start performance. I have to confess that it is not I but my daughter who owns the 500. However, I am still greatly concerned with the dangerous hill start /climb situation, as I watch here try to pull away on the hill on which we live. Apparently, she was given a remap, but no better what so ever. Imagine my delight when 'Bigchrome' said that his had been fixed, yet my dismay when he was unable to ascertain what they has actually done to fix his problem. Is there any way that this could be further tracked down from 'Dan Seaman's' garage, as to my understanding they are the only people who seem to have eliminated the problem. Possibly being approached by the 'Fiat Forum' on behalf of it's members.

Hi Vipus, i had the update done last june/july on a 14 plate 500, and i also could not get any information as to what had been done to the car, no paperwork about the update work done,
only the service worksheet that i signed when i dropped the car in to the dealers, said software update on it, but that was for their records.

It really transformed the engine on the 500, i could tell on pulling away from the dealer it had been fixed.

 

[jrkitching]

Apparently, she was given a remap, but no better what so ever.

It really transformed the engine on the 500, i could tell on pulling away from the dealer it had been fixed.

This dichotomy has been with us since the thread started - we still don't know why the update seems to work on some of the cars, whilst others report it hasn't fixed the problem.

I've been hoping that time would enable us to collect specific information about which ECU hardware & software versions have this issue, and which don't - but this sort of information is not easy to obtain and the silence from Fiat has been deafening. After 124 pages of posts, we don't know much more about exactly what's happening than we did on day 1.

My advice remains the same - properly test drive any Euro6 1.2 Fiat before purchase and walk away from any which exhibit this sort of behaviour as although some folks have reported a complete fix, others have been stonewalled by their dealers.

We have a 59 plate 1.2 whilst there is a lack of torque below 3k I've never had an issue pulling away clutch control being the key

'59 plate cars are not affected by this issue, which is confined to versions with the Euro 6 engine (installed from about spring 2014 onwards).

 

[John202020]

So there is a advantage of driving a older car,,

 

[jrkitching]

So there is a advantage of driving a older car,,

There are many; ready availability of aftermarket & secondhand parts being another.

There have been a number of posts on the forum from folks who bought Euro6 1.2's (both 500's and Pandas) on the strength of the previous model and ended up bitterly disappointed; a few even sold their new cars on quickly at a substantial loss, just to be rid of the problem.

The number of complaints is falling off now, at least for brand new buyers, so it seems the very latest Euro6 cars do not suffer to the same extent (though I still wouldn't recommend handing over the money without an extended test drive of the physical car you'll be taking delivery of). Precisely why Fiat can't roll out an update that works on all the Euro6 cars is still an unsolved mystery.

There will now be a number of early Euro6 1.2s coming through the secondhand channels; buyers of these cars need to be particularly wary.

 

[Lilly69]

We had problems in early 2014 with our daughter's (then) new 1.2; at the time I posted in one of the active threads to say that the issue was solved following a 3-week stint at the dealership. Believe a new ECU was part of the fix - but anyway, the car was returned in a fully drivable condition, and seemed to feel much more like the 2011 1.2 she had owned before that; from then on, no issues for 35,000 miles.

Last month we changed that car for a new 2016 1.2 - we were a little wary, all things considered; I did raise the 'infamous' engine issue with the salesman, and he said (of course) that Fiat had sorted out the software, not an issue. Well, the difference is night and day. This car is more eager, has an instant 'pull' that the 2014 car was just missing, even after the fix. Pretty amazed, actually!

 

[jrkitching]

Believe a new ECU was part of the fix

I've suspected for a long time that there are hardware differences involved here, otherwise Fiat would have solved this for all affected cars long ago with a software update.

Many of the folks who've had the update report that it only partially addresses the issue.

Last month we changed that car for a new 2016 1.2 - we were a little wary, all things considered; I did raise the 'infamous' engine issue with the salesman, and he said (of course) that Fiat had sorted out the software, not an issue. Well, the difference is night and day. This car is more eager, has an instant 'pull' that the 2014 car was just missing, even after the fix. Pretty amazed, actually!

Good news for prospective new car buyers; all the more reason for secondhand buyers of early Euro6 500's to exercise extra caution - the issue may never be properly resolved for the affected cars and they'll be condemned to limp along in a somewhat crippled mode for the duration of their lives.

 

[Tootsweet]

I am on my 2nd 500. Had a 58 plate sport and now a 64 convertible . It has always felt sluggish (which i thought was due to the roof) and have recently moved to a village with hills!! Recently tried to reverse up one and was sorely disappointed .
It was only the fact that I had steering wheel issues that the car was going back to the garage, I mentioned the poor performance and they offered to check for the software update. On collection of the car I was informed mine was one with the "issue" and has now been rectified . They would not give me any paperwork to confirm this, however the car is much better. It's just a shame I have been driving a year without getting it looked at. Even managed to reverse up that same hill ??

 

[Heidi500]

Does anyone know when this issue was resolved? Will I be safe buying a Fiat 500 registered 31/03/2015?? I have had a test drive in it, but didn't come across any steep hills!