Technical Clutch master cylinder

[brightie1]

Hi, I have ordered a new clutch master cylinder which I intend to fit to my 2007 Panda 169 1.1. The slave cylinder was done a few years back with a sealed system so no bleed nipple. The master cylinder I have ordered seems to have the reservoir with it already filled so I am assuming that it is also sealed and there will be no need to bleed anything? If I do need to bleed the system any thoughts as to how I do that with no bleed nipple?
Also, is there an easy way to get better access to the master cylinder ball joint tucked up behind the clutch pedal? Can barely see it with a mirror let alone get to it. Bad back and neck don't help I guess. Does removing any trim help?
Many thanks

 

[koalar]

Every slave will have a bleed screw or nipple

Most have a pipe next to the screw or a nipple

This one appears to be just a screw although the photo not clear

 

[koalar]

No there's no better access as far as I know, as far as I remeber it's on the left side of the pedal with a clear path to it. Just very awkward

If it's filled and you are using the quick connect there is no need to bleed

 

[jrkitching]

The slave cylinder was done a few years back with a sealed system so no bleed nipple

Every slave cylinder will have a means of bleeding it. On my OEM slave, the bleed screw and nipple are separate; you need an allen key to open the bleed, and the nipple is covered by a protective cap (which just pulls off).

Photo below. The bleed screw is at the top; the nipple on the side, behind its protective cover.

That photo was taken with the battery in situ, without dismantling anything. There's just enough access to be able to get a drain tube onto the nipple and an allen key onto the screw, but you have to work blind. Nothing has been dismantled in the photo below.

Just attach the other end of that tubing to a vacuum bleeder and turn the allen key. Take care to keep the reservoir filled; it doesn't hold much fluid.

Alternatively, remove the battery and battery tray.

 

[brightie1]

No there's no better access as far as I know, as far as I remeber it's on the left side of the pedal with a clear path to it. Just very awkward

If it's filled and you are using the quick connect there is no need to bleed

Thanks very much. Good of you. That gives me confidence to get stuck in. Voltarol at the ready

 

[brightie1]

Every slave cylinder will have a means of bleeding it. On my OEM slave, the bleed screw and nipple are separate; you need an allen key to open the bleed, and the nipple is covered by a protective cap (which just pulls off).

Photo below. The bleed screw is at the top; the nipple on the side, behind its protective cover.

That photo was taken with the battery in situ, without dismantling anything. There's just enough access to be able to get a drain tube onto the nipple and an allen key onto the screw, but you have to work blind. Nothing has been dismantled in the photo below.

Just attach the other end of that tubing to a vacuum bleeder and turn the allen key. Take care to keep the reservoir filled; it doesn't hold much fluid.

Alternatively, remove the battery and battery tray.

Thanks - already removed the battery tray and the slave cylinder looks like the one that Koalar kindly posted. As both the master and slave cylinders look to be pre-filled I'm hoping not to have to bleed.

Quite a few years since I posted on this site and I have to say that the response has been outstanding. Thanks both.

 

[The Panda Nut]

You will be fine. I did mine a few days after major surgery. The pushrod unclips very easily and goes back even easier. I had a prefilled system but due to the two pipes needing to be joined at the quick release under the chassi leg, which would not come apart, I disconnected the existing pipes top and bottom and used those. The clutch will bleed itself under gravity in my experience. Its one job thats easier than you would expect. If you do as I did, dont loose the O rings on the pipe ends!

 

[brightie1]

You will be fine. I did mine a few days after major surgery. The pushrod unclips very easily and goes back even easier. I had a prefilled system but due to the two pipes needing to be joined at the quick release under the chassi leg, which would not come apart, I disconnected the existing pipes top and bottom and used those. The clutch will bleed itself under gravity in my experience. Its one job thats easier than you would expect. If you do as I did, dont loose the O rings on the pipe ends!

Thanks for the reassurance. This is what I have coming.
So to be clear, I am not going to be able to keep the system sealed if I connect the existing pipe into the connector shown on that master cylinder? It has to be done on the chassis leg? And the slave cylinder looks to be like the one posted by Koalar which has a bleed screw but no nipple to connect a pipe to. If I have to bleed the system then I guess I'm going to have to rely upon gravity only?
Thanks all.

 

[jrkitching]

the slave cylinder looks to be like the one posted by Koalar which has a bleed screw but no nipple

If you look closely at Koalar's photo, you'll see there is a nipple in the same place as the one in my photo, again covered by a removable cap. Just pull off the cap and attach a suitable piece of tubing. The bleed screw and the nipple are separate on these cylinders.

Be aware that if you use any of the pressure methods of bleeding, including pumping the pedal, more fluid will likely spray out from around the bleedscrew than will go down the tubing.

It's important to make sure there's no air in the circuit, or the clutch won't disengage fully, leading to rapid wear of both the clutch and the gearbox. Don't be too intimidated, though - getting a decent bleed is straightforward, even if not making a mess isn't.

If you don't want to take out the battery and its tray, take a photo and work by feeling what you see.

 

[brightie1]

If you look closely at Koalar's photo, you'll see there is a nipple in the same place as the one in my photo, again covered by a removable cap. Just pull off the cap and attach a suitable piece of tubing. The bleed screw and the nipple are separate on these cylinders.

Be aware that if you use any of the pressure methods of bleeding, including pumping the pedal, more fluid will likely spray out from around the bleedscrew than will go down the tubing.

It's important to make sure there's no air in the circuit, or the clutch won't disengage fully, leading to rapid wear of both the clutch and the gearbox. Don't be too intimidated, though - getting a decent bleed is straightforward, even if not making a mess isn't.

If you don't want to take out the battery and its tray, take a photo and work by feeling what you see.

Thanks very much. Thats really helpful. All becomes clear.

 

[The Panda Nut]

If you look closely at Koalar's photo, you'll see there is a nipple i.n the same place as the one in my photo, again covered by a removable cap. Just pull off the cap and attach a suitable piece of tubing. The bleed screw and the nipple are separate on these cylinders.

Be aware that if you use any of the pressure methods of bleeding, including pumping the pedal, more fluid will likely spray out from around the bleedscrew than will go down the tubing.

It's important to make sure there's no air in the circuit, or the clutch won't disengage fully, leading to rapid wear of both the clutch and the gearbox. Don't be too intimidated, though - getting a decent bleed is straightforward, even if not making a mess isn't.

If you don't want to take out the battery and its tray, take a photo and work by feeling what you see.

In this case you will need to bleed the slave cylinder as its pipe is not connected to the master culinder. It just pushes in to the master cylinder and is secured by pressing the spring clip down. The metal fitting on the end of the pipe should not be removed its permanent and has the o ring to seal it. Use a very small screw driver to side under the wire clip and gently lever it up. The slave cylinder pipe will pull out with a little side to side twisting. I would recommend not replacing the slave cylinder pipe(s) unless they are leaking due to the awkward location of the half-way join under the chassis leg. The new slave clinder had a nice long pipe attached, This is mow hanging on the garage wall. The end of the pipe that pushes into the master cylinder has a tiny O ring on it. I decided to take the O ring off the new long slave cylinder pipe and fit it to the old pipe fitting at the master cylinder end. and put it onto the old pipe, dropping it and loosing it in one go. Fortunately I have a big box of the things and had a spare but take care if you do this. The pushrod was removed by my daughter and flipped off easily with a screw driver. Putting it back was laughably easy. Remove the cap from the reservoir before fitting the master cylinder. I broke the new reservoir doing this after fitting as I couldnt get purchase on it, so again be careful. The new cap was TIGHT. Bleeding only required three or 4 presses of the pedal but gravity will do the trick if its left open for a few minutes.

 

[brightie1]

In this case you will need to bleed the slave cylinder as its pipe is not connected to the master culinder. It just pushes in to the master cylinder and is secured by pressing the spring clip down. The metal fitting on the end of the pipe should not be removed its permanent and has the o ring to seal it. Use a very small screw driver to side under the wire clip and gently lever it up. The slave cylinder pipe will pull out with a little side to side twisting. I would recommend not replacing the slave cylinder pipe(s) unless they are leaking due to the awkward location of the half-way join under the chassis leg. The new slave clinder had a nice long pipe attached, This is mow hanging on the garage wall. The end of the pipe that pushes into the master cylinder has a tiny O ring on it. I decided to take the O ring off the new long slave cylinder pipe and fit it to the old pipe fitting at the master cylinder end. and put it onto the old pipe, dropping it and loosing it in one go. Fortunately I have a big box of the things and had a spare but take care if you do this. The pushrod was removed by my daughter and flipped off easily with a screw driver. Putting it back was laughably easy. Remove the cap from the reservoir before fitting the master cylinder. I broke the new reservoir doing this after fitting as I couldnt get purchase on it, so again be careful. The new cap was TIGHT. Bleeding only required three or 4 presses of the pedal but gravity will do the trick if its left open for a few minutes.

Thanks thats really helpful. Top tips. Each contributor adds a bit to the puzzle. Grateful to you all. Have to say that you guys on the Fiat forum are so much more helpful than those I found on a particular Japanese forum website to be when my then car lost its Zoom Zoom.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Its kind of you to comment and indicates you are one of us. We aim to help. Pandas are alive, have minds of their own and each one needs TLC. My talking to my Pandas does raise eyebrows! Why they make you smile quite so much when you drive them Im not sure. My son was filming bit of a drive overthe Alps in May and recorded me saying 'thats hairpin 51 on this pass, Pandas are the ideal car for this sort of road' I think that has a lot to do with it. They take anything you can throw at them. I have three on the basis that each time I do a job I learn for the other two cars. I have found that aside from rusting bolts they are as easy to work on as anything I have owned, and have a low demand for special tools. Fiats seem to attract the right people. Most of us are either going mad or just out right mad altogether. Sometimes it helps and sometimes not.........

 

[brightie1]

We aim to help. Pandas are alive, have minds of their own and each one needs TLC. Why they make you smile quite so much when you drive them Im not sure. My son was filming bit of a drive overthe Alps in May and recorded me saying ' thats hairpin 51 on this pass, Pandas are the ideal car fofr this sor tof road' I think that has a lot to do with it. I have three on the basis that each time I do a job I learn for the other two cars. I have found that aside from rusting bolts they are as easy to work on as anything I have owned, and have a low demand for special tools. Fiats seem to attract the right people. Most of us are either going mad or just out right mad altogether. Sometimes it helps and sometimes not.........

I agree that there is something about them. I have a mature going on elderly Panda and a much newer Mitsubishi for longer distances and taking my parents in their late 80's around. The Panda did belong to my wife who passed away just under 2 years ago. She had it from almost new. At 4ft 9inch tall it was one of the few cars that she could see out of and just about depress the clutch. I just couldn't move it on. Its the ideal car for town driving, which is mostly what I do. Nobody can understand why I enjoy driving the Panda more than the Mitsubishi despite that having full leather and all the bells and whistles. Think its called charisma and character.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I agree that there is something about them. I have a mature going on elderly Panda and a much newer Mitsubishi for longer distances and taking my parents in their late 80's around. The Panda did belong to my wife who passed away just under 2 years ago. She had it from almost new. At 4ft 9inch tall it was one of the few cars that she could see out of and just about depress the clutch. I just couldn't move it on. Its the ideal car for town driving, which is mostly what I do. Nobody can understand why I enjoy driving the Panda more than the Mitsubishi despite that having full leather and all the bells and whistles. Think its called charisma and character.

Brio. Pandas have it others dont!

 

[Mike1alike]

I agree that there is something about them. I have a mature going on elderly Panda and a much newer Mitsubishi for longer distances and taking my parents in their late 80's around. The Panda did belong to my wife who passed away just under 2 years ago. She had it from almost new. At 4ft 9inch tall it was one of the few cars that she could see out of and just about depress the clutch. I just couldn't move it on. Its the ideal car for town driving, which is mostly what I do. Nobody can understand why I enjoy driving the Panda more than the Mitsubishi despite that having full leather and all the bells and whistles. Think its called charisma and character.

Condolences for losing your wife!
I am deeply sorry for yor loss!

 

[brightie1]

Condolences for losing your wife!
I am deeply sorry for yor loss!

Thanks appreciate that

 

[Yolanda]

I must admit these little cars get under your skin. When I was looking round for a second car I never even thought about a Panda but I'm so glad one came my way. I love it. I know this might sound a bit over the top but I get as much pleasure driving it as I do driving my Mercedes. Although the latter goes a bit quicker.