Automotive Confessions

[Liquid Knight]

I find all modern generic blob cars boring.

Manufacturers who use a modern generic platform and put a "Retro" body on it (BMW MINI, VW Beetle, Fiat 500, Nissan I can't be bothered to google what that thing is called) are even worse.

Manufacturers who put a sticker on a car and call it a limited edition (Nissan).

Drivers aids! :bang: The main reason the standard of driving in the UK is the worst it has been since people had to walk in front of cars with a red flag.

I have no time whatsoever for people who buy cars as accessories. Keeping up with the Jones's in their six month older generic blob with limited edition stickers.

I'm going to stop now before I go into full rant mode and mention brake lights.

 

[Candisa]

Haha, I hear you!
I liked the 1st gen Punto, Bravo and Doblo a lot more than the later models.
But there are some positive evolutions as well IMO. F.e. Alfa 145->147->Giulietta

I quite like the 500, but it's pretty much the only retro model I like, ánd I didn't like it straight away when it was launched.
I even considered buying one, but like you say, it's pretty much an accessory and priced like one as well if you get a bit of kit on it...


I did buy a brand new Doblo, but that's mostly because of practical reasons, and because Fiat managed to put a little bit of character in it with the new front and dashboard.

I've always liked Italian cars, but if the Doblo still would have had the huge googly headlights, Audi-ish grille and dull dashboard of the '10 model, I probable would have bought an equally dull, but more practical Nissan NV200.

 

[Liquid Knight]

Alfa always misses a beat.

The 155 brilliant in every way. 156 ropy, rubbish or both. The 159 superb.

The 145 one of the best little hatchbacks of the period, 147 dull and about as reliable as something French, Giulietta is one of only a few new cars I would consider owning. They're that good.

The 164 was fantastic, the 166 terrible and the new Giulia looks like she's going to be a winner.

Performance models as well

The 155 Q4 turbo or V6 were spectacular, the 156 2.4 and 2.5 V6's were minicabs compared to the GTA; but you need to Google to know it existed. The same Busso V6 in the 159 JTS Q4 manual is one of the best saloon or estate cars every built.

The 145 Cloverleaf was one of the best naturally aspirated hot hatches of all time. The 147 GTA sounded great went like a bullet but show it a corner and it would show you the nearest hedge. Also the Busso was too much for the engine bay and a pain in the faff to work on, the Q2 diff was okay but it needed Prodrive to make it work properly adding an extra £10,000 to the asking price. Apart from the air conditioning that has always been a bug bear for Alfa the Giulietta QV is simply perfect.

 

[Candisa]

Yeah, if my budget allowed me to spend more money on a not so practical car, I would have bought a Giulietta QV, no doubt about it, wouldn't even bother checking what else is available for that money...

 

[Liquid Knight]

Yeah, if my budget allowed me to spend more money on a not so practical car, I would have bought a Giulietta QV, no doubt about it, wouldn't even bother checking what else is available for that money...

Double the budget and I can't think of a better new car out there.

 

[Candisa]

Well, if I had twice the cost of a Giulietta to spend on a car, I'd probably get a 4C...

But I would have to be filthy rich before I'd even spend Giulietta QV money on a single car.

 

[StevenRB45]

I find all modern generic blob cars boring.

While I'm not against modern cars per se they have their uses I do get where you are coming from.

Tbf it wouldn't be so bad if the majority of the budget didn't go on marketing..rather than unimportant stuff like manual gearboxes that have a nice precise and positive action, steering with feel, brakes where abs is not really required because the pedal lets you know what is going on at the wheels and doesn't operate like a switch. Who wants a pedal box that allows heel and toeing? A clutch that doesn't have a weird springy action and throttle that's not blighted by laggy responses. Oh and a properly laid out driving position...no one wants that.


That **** don't sell people want stickers and colour options..


Driver aids I don't mind, as long the basic chassis is good enough that you can effectively choose to use them, I.e. steering says "slow down or you're going wide" you ignore this start going off then they activate. When they are there because the car is so uncommunicative that the limits are unclear that's not how it should be.

 

[Liquid Knight]

Well, if I had twice the cost of a Giulietta to spend on a car, I'd probably get a 4C...

But I would have to be filthy rich before I'd even spend Giulietta QV money on a single car.

Good shout and very tempting but the 4C is a bit of an event where as the Giulietta is a car.

Also I couldn't live without a manual gearbox. I know the 4C is on of the best on the market but if I wanted paddles I'd buy a canoe.

 

[Candisa]

That's why I'd need to be filthy rich to spend so much money on a single car. Although I know how much engineering and craft there is in a 4C, spending that kind of money and get a car that has less creature comforts than a flippin' Panda would make me feel seriously ripped off if that amount of money is any more than the interests of the interests of my Swiss savings account.


I don't mind the gearbox though, paddles are quicker than a standard manual, and the option to chuck it in auto mode during some motorway traffic is a huge plus imo.


The funny thing is the 4C would probably be cheaper than a Giulietta QV in the long run. The engine is the same, but the 4C should be more reliable and economic thanks to its lack of creature comforts, light weight and aerodynamics.
Also a Giulietta QV would keep its value better than a T-Jet or a diesel, but the 4C could actually increase in value if you keep it low mileage, or depreciate less if you put miles on it...

 

[Liquid Knight]

Single car? If had a lotto win I'd still have my Fantasia.

 

[Candisa]

Yeah, me too, but there's an other topic for that...

On topic: Don't muscle and electric/hybrid people realize how annoying they are to people who drive something normal?
I'm sick of hearing all that nonsense about V8's (good luck keeping it filled up dinosaur) on one side and save the planet crap (good luck charging every 200km, or saving zero fuel in the real world)...

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm unsure as to where I stand with the whole augmented engine sound business. Engine noise piped through speakers just no...but playing the exhaust to unleash what's there has me on the fence. On an Aston Martin..it can be a thing of beauty, on a Merc A45 pure comedy as it belches pops and farts it's way down the road at 40mph...

 

[AndyRKett]

I'm unsure as to where I stand with the whole augmented engine sound business. Engine noise piped through speakers just no...but playing the exhaust to unleash what's there has me on the fence. On an Aston Martin..it can be a thing of beauty, on a Merc A45 pure comedy as it belches pops and farts it's way down the road at 40mph...

I believe the corsa vxr at one point had some sort of system that would augment v8 and other engine sounds through the car speakers....

Just cause it barks doesn't make it a dog.

But I suppose your 17 year old mates will probably think it's well cool init!!!

 

[Liquid Knight]

I believe the corsa vxr at one point had some sort of system that would augment v8 and other engine sounds through the car speakers....

Renault have had this for a while you can play Clio Williams or V6 sounds through the speakers in a Clio 1.2 bonus/campus/poverty spec' so they all get thrashed to pieces.

It's the automotive equivalent of putting playing cards in your bicycle spokes.

I found that was less effective as my BMW had Skyways. :slayer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sound-Racer-V8-In-Car-Engine-Sound-FM-Transmitter-MP3-Gadget-/371536939264?hash=item568153c900:g:C~UAAOSwBahVQjot

Still I guess if you have a gullible date you could plug one of those in and impress him/her.

 

[StevenRB45]

I don't mind exhaust bypass valves/sound tubes to make a beasty car sound the part under load. Best of both worlds, the video game stuff needs to come with an off button which it doesn't in BMW's..

So far real noise good, electrical noise bad, but then we get to cars mapped to make every trip to the shops sound like you're on a special stage rather than accelerating normally. 2 examples would be A45 (I only mention this as someone at work has one and every time he leaves even at a reasonable pace the blatant computer instigated pop, bang and crackle is evident on every upshift even when the car is stone cold) and the boxster of which there was an amusing vid on pistonheads sounding frankly like it needed the fuelling sorting out.

I like a loud car if it's a nice and proportional noise but I feel as though you'd get very annoyed of everyone looking at you like a hooligan as your car announces you are doing warp speed while pootling to the shops..

 

[brinker]

The 155 brilliant in every way. 156 ropy, rubbish or both. The 159 superb.

The 155 Q4 turbo or V6 were spectacular, the 156 2.4 and 2.5 V6's were minicabs compared to the GTA; but you need to Google to know it existed. The same Busso V6 in the 159 JTS Q4 manual is one of the best saloon or estate cars every built.

I beg to differ...
155 great, we can agree on that. No further comments on here.
156 - it was great. Sure it had issues, but so what? The car is fantastic when fitted with one of the TS engines! JTS were never a hit, and I never liked them. Sure the 2.5 V6 was too heavy. 2.4 JTD - who even drives a diesel?
159 - sure, it's good, pretty and whatnot. But it's dull and uninspiring to drive. Heavy. It's at it best cruising down the motorway. Also, there never was a Busso V6 in the 159 - that was a GM made engine. Busso died with the GT.

 

[Liquid Knight]

It's a shame the 159 GTA was shelved. The 166 was supposed to get the V8 from the Maserati Quatroporte and the 159 a turbo 3.2 V6 making close to 350bhp and beefed up four wheel drive.

I think there's a "Car's that never were" thread somewhere.

Add the MkI Bravo Turbo to that. While Fiat were getting Bangle to design the Coupe they used a Bravo and Brava as mules for the engines and for a while considered a limited production run of Bravo 16V Turbo's but it would have been quicker than the Bravo HGT and more practical than the Coupe so it was also shelved.

 

[pooroldcodger]

I read practical Classics magazine now and again, as an antidote to reading Evo and other magazines about cars which I might once have owned or aspired to, but no longer can/ do.
In PC magazine there are endless articles about people restoring cars that are always going to have terrible performance, bad economy, poor brakes, poor bodywork etc but to somebody - them presumably, they are a "classic". Isn't that the point? We're all different?
To me, the basic utilitarian honesty of my old Panda appeals even though I know it will be slow and noisy (especially with the twin sunnies).
Probably a real classic to me is one that looks fantastic, goes like stink and would never be allowed under current legislation, but cars are like people - different traits appeal to different people - thank goodness.

 

[Noxide]

I read practical Classics magazine now and again, as an antidote to reading Evo and other magazines about cars which I might once have owned or aspired to, but no longer can/ do.
In PC magazine there are endless articles about people restoring cars that are always going to have terrible performance, bad economy, poor brakes, poor bodywork etc but to somebody - them presumably, they are a "classic". Isn't that the point? We're all different?
To me, the basic utilitarian honesty of my old Panda appeals even though I know it will be slow and noisy (especially with the twin sunnies).
Probably a real classic to me is one that looks fantastic, goes like stink and would never be allowed under current legislation, but cars are like people - different traits appeal to different people - thank goodness.

This post probably sums it all up in fairness!

My dad considers an E-type a classic he'd love to own. I'd rather own a yobby old Cosworth!


Variety is the spice of life.

 

[pooroldcodger]

This post probably sums it all up in fairness!

My dad considers an E-type a classic he'd love to own. I'd rather own a yobby old Cosworth!


Variety is the spice of life.

Agreed.......but I'm with your Dad on that one!
But the Cossie will be faster and more practical.
Use the Clarkson test - your are taking Kristin Scott-Thomas out for dinner (insert lady of your choice).
Which would she be more impressed with?