Hello!

On my Stilo Abarth i experience heavy kangarooing when in 1st gear pull-off and also a little between gears. I already replaced the complete clutch incl. hydraulic bearing and flywheel. Also the accumulator and clutch solenoid are replaced, but problem still exists. Problem seems worse when it got colder.

I use FiatECUScan to read out my selespeed and engine ECU. But when i monitor the MAF values i see something strange. I attached a screenshot with the values of my MAF.



As you can see the airflow, air temperature and even water temperature drops to 0 frequently. These values are monitored from within the Motronic Engine ECU.

Questions:
- I assume i should see a normal line in the graph without these 0 droppings?
- I could conclude that the MAF is gone, but why is the water temperature also dropping?

Anyone experienced this before?

Surely the values shouldn't drop to zero. An intermitant electrical fault seems more likely IMO.

That is what i thought also. I assume that the water temperature comes from the sensor on the thermostat housing. i'll check if the MAF wiring and thermostat sensor wiring are in the same loom, maybe there is a faulty connector or something.

Perhaps they use the same earthing point. There are a lot of earthing points all over the car the main one being near the battery. I would suspect the only thing that could connect the two giving them both the same fault would be a shared earthing point. Perhaps a loose fitting or corrosion?

or its just FES losing connection

spyshagg said:

or its just FES losing connection

Click to expand...

Could be but if you look at the MAF voltage, it is not dropping. I Also have other graph readings from the engine which doesn`t show these droppings.

A Earth point could be the problem, i'll check that one.

When i wiggle the MAF connector, i can see that the air temperature values and water temperature drop to 0. Also noted that with stone cold engine and 11 degr. C. in the workshop the air temperature says 21.1 degrees celcius. my onboard temp sensor also says 11 degr. C.

I checked the ground connection on the throttle body / ECU and also on the ground point on the engine. That seems to be good as i get 0.0 Ohms on my new digital ohm meter.

I have the MAF here in front of me, so i'm going to measure it.

UPDATE:

The dropping values seems to be a lost connection from FiatECUScan, as i monitored my battery voltage and it also had these spikes.

Changed MAF today and the temperature value was still stuck on 21 degrees

I check my schematic and measured the wires from the MAF to the ECU connectors, which were good. When i checked the connectors there was some white grease in them which (obviously?) influenced the signal. I cleaned the connectors and i had a good temperature reading!

But i still can not trace my kangarooing! i have now done

- Clutch kit
- Flywheel
- Hydraulic Clutch Actuator incl new sensor
- Clutch valve EV0 solenoid
- Accumulator
- MAF sensor
- checked the brake pedal switch
- Cleaned the accelerator pedal sensor

As i am reasonably clueless right now, what else could cause this kangarooing? I can check the variator and throttle body. Can i just unplug the variator plug to see if it makes a difference?

Looks like you've covered most the possible causes. A stuck or faulty EGR can severely effect performance, it could cause Kangarooing? The best way to check if the EGR is the problem is to block it off(temporally), if the problem is reduced perhaps the EGR or its control sensors are at fault.

This can be used to block of the EGR.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120647113670

Shadeyman said:

Looks like you've covered most the possible causes. A stuck or faulty EGR can severely effect performance, it could cause Kangarooing? The best way to check if the EGR is the problem is to block it off(temporally), if the problem is reduced perhaps the EGR or its control sensors are at fault.

This can be used to block of the EGR.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120647113670

Click to expand...

Hmmm didn't know an Abarth had an EGR. Does it?

Yellow Peril said:

Hmmm didn't know an Abarth had an EGR. Does it?

Click to expand...

Thats a good point. Thinking about it now I dont think it does? Time to check.

No it doesn't.
Only the Punto Abarth has one as far as I can tell. Maybe someone else with an Abarth can confirm.

No EGR on the Abarth.

Today checked the variator and it seems to work correctly. Measured all the solenoids and sensors from the selespeed robot to the selespeed ecu and everything seems to be OK.

As i think right now the only thing that is left is the selespeed ECU.
With FiatECUScan everything seems to be OK inside the ECU as i can read all the values. The only thing that is not working is the 'calculate clutch degredation index' and 'calibrate clutch'. Bleeding and the EOL service works perfectly.

As i can see the clutch degredation in FiatECUScan is set to 13600 which according to FES is a indication for worn clutch. this isnt changed since i replaced the clutch. Also after a couple of tries to do the clutch calibration, it still won`t change.
Anyone experience with the clutch calibration procedure?

hello

what did solve your problem?

yes i did! and as always it was a simple solution...

When i got my car i did all the neccessary maintenance such as new filters, changing oil, etc. I also changed the oil of the selespeed system and (as i read on most forums) replaced it with castrol Dexron III oil. I looked at the specifications and it was identical to the original oil specifications.

And you guessed it already, there is the problem!
After i tried everything, i thought maybe it is worth to try and change the selespeed oil to the original 'Tutela CS Speed'. I bought 2 bottles at the local Fiat dealer for 20 euros or so. I used one bottle to repeately flush the system, and the other bottle to fill it up again.

Result: My selespeed has never been so smooth! absolutely no kangarooing at hot, cold, slow driving. Absolutely perfect.

So my advice to everyone with this kind of problem; start with the cheapest and get some original tutela CS speed oil! Even if the dexron III specification is the same it could be the cause of these problems!

I never thought of that. My oil must be 10 years old by now but the level is ok.

What kind of kangarooing did you had? mine only shows up when accelerating very very lightly (like when doing small parking maneuvers), in 1st and 2nd gear. Never does it in rear gear. It also does pretty harsh gear exchanges when cold but they don't get much better when hot either...



Thanks for the tip

yes, it was the same with mine, only at very slight acceleration from 1st or 2nd and not in reverse. It is also wise to calibrate the box after you changed/replace the oil. This way the selespeed learns the new clutch actuator parameters the right way! I used fiatecuscan for that...

I also have fiatecuscan

Which calibration did you use? There are 2 I think

end of line
clutch degradation index


My degradation index is about 13000 or 15000, I forgot

just the 'end of line' the other didn`t do anything noticable for me....

Did it, didn't solve my problem

got to keep searching

What did you tried / replaced already?

What i found out is that the clutch solenoid is also replaced by a modified version you can check for reference part numbers at the fiat dealer. Maybe it is the clutch solenoid which is failing (no errors in the selespeed system??)

Also when flushing the system, remember to depresurize the system with fiatecuscan. Then take all the fluid out of the reservoir and fill with fresh fluid. Now bleed the system with fiatecuscan. you 'll see that the fluid becomes darker as old fluid rises to the reservoir. repeat this proces for about 10 times or until the fluid stays clear.