It's sad that they have to end FIRE production because a bunch of politicians in a room make up these Euro emissions standards and have no actual clue of the technicalities that must be involved..
End Fiat TwinAir engine production is near.
- Thread starter The Pretender
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End Fiat TwinAir engine production is near.
Just to be clear, they're not ending FIRE production, just TwinAir.
Overall I think the euro emussions are a good thing. They have helped reduce air pollution in Europe by a lot and they push the manufactures to develop more advanced engines and technologies.
And let's be fair, the FIRE engine family is from the mid-eighties and though it has evolved over time it's nearing the end of it's life.
It has been (and still is) a great engine family but at some point it needs to be replaced and hopefully the Firefly can replace the FIRE engine and push even further.
And let's be fair, the FIRE engine family is from the mid-eighties and though it has evolved over time it's nearing the end of it's life.
It has been (and still is) a great engine family but at some point it needs to be replaced and hopefully the Firefly can replace the FIRE engine and push even further.
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I must admit, it would be interesting to see how the real world economy of the 1.2 FIRE compares with that of the small turbo engines made by the other manufacturers. The weekend just gone, myself and 3 friends went to a concert that was a 260 mile round trip in my old 1.4 8v Grande, which despite lugging the weight of us and our luggage for the night, and at mainly 60-70 mph, managed to return around 45 mpg. I'd imagine a newer, cleaner FIRE, especially a 1.2 would return an even more impressive figure.
Try to compare figures on spritmonitor.de
I haven't done it myself, so I would love to see the different numbers.
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Slight problem: I don't know german, lol!
Totaly agree.
I can only think of one engine they didn't do well with and that was the old 1.4 12V in the Bravo/Brava.
Quick comparison from spritmonitor.de:
Fiat Panda 2012-
0.9 TwinAir Turbo (86/80 hp): Max. 37.02, Min. 54.79 Average. 45.53 mpg (IMP) Official UK average: 67.3
1.2 (69 hp): Max. 35.15, Min. 58.34 Average. 47.32 mpg (IMP) ficial UK average: 55.4
0.9 TwinAir N/A (60/65 hp): Max. 47.07, Min. 61.34 Average. 50.10 mpg (IMP) ficial UK average: 67.3 - there's only 5 of these, so the average may not be that accurate.
So from this quick and dirty comparison, the 1.2 is much closer to the officla average than the TwinAir.
I've taken the official UK average from carfolio.com, so I hope they are the right ones.
Fiat Panda 2012-
0.9 TwinAir Turbo (86/80 hp): Max. 37.02, Min. 54.79 Average. 45.53 mpg (IMP) Official UK average: 67.3
1.2 (69 hp): Max. 35.15, Min. 58.34 Average. 47.32 mpg (IMP) ficial UK average: 55.4
0.9 TwinAir N/A (60/65 hp): Max. 47.07, Min. 61.34 Average. 50.10 mpg (IMP) ficial UK average: 67.3 - there's only 5 of these, so the average may not be that accurate.
So from this quick and dirty comparison, the 1.2 is much closer to the officla average than the TwinAir.
I've taken the official UK average from carfolio.com, so I hope they are the right ones.
I ended up with one in the same way...nearly I had a Suzuki swift interlude (but that's another small fun car with a high revving outsize 1.5 engine and tidy handling). They aren't the most refined cars in class usually but they can tackle a back road with vigour and the gearbox, engine and control set up mean you can have some fun in the old Italian style. I.e. hang on to those gears and rev the balls off it rather than torque surfing in the turbo way.
Yeah, it needs some revs to really get going but that's part of the fun (and it can still log around town at 1200 rpm).
My CX-3 is very good in summer on the 18" tires, it has an automatic gearbox, which is great for cruising and when I need a bit of fun, I just put in Sport and switch to manual shifting using the paddles on the steering wheel
I looked at the 500x but with price and gadgets in mind, we ended up with the CX-3, though I still like the 500x
Yeah, it needs some revs to really get going but that's part of the fun (and it can still log around town at 1200 rpm).
My CX-3 is very good in summer on the 18" tires, it has an automatic gearbox, which is great for cruising and when I need a bit of fun, I just put in Sport and switch to manual shifting using the paddles on the steering wheel
I looked at the 500x but with price and gadgets in mind, we ended up with the CX-3, though I still like the 500x
Mines pre-skyactiv so not quite as advanced engine wise but it'll happily stay in 5th from 800 rpm (sub 30mph) so despite it apparently being less "flexible" in magazine speak set up (to be read it doesn't have 180 ft-lb of torque available at 2k rpm) I change gear far less than I do in our turbo diesel. Joys of not having to constantly keep boost pressure up to make progress.
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santa: out of interest, how do the performance figures of the N/A TwinAir compare to those for the Panda/500 1.2 8v FIRE?
StevenRB45: my Grande is a bit like your Mazda. It'll happily cruise at 30mph in 5th, and even still accelerate to 60mph without changing down to 4th!
StevenRB45: my Grande is a bit like your Mazda. It'll happily cruise at 30mph in 5th, and even still accelerate to 60mph without changing down to 4th!
I'm fairly certain most cars can, the grande is definitely not quick at doing this though.
Older twin air cars often show problems with the complicated valve set up, I think fiat have reached the limit of this technology and given how complicated it is, the pay offs are no match for a well tuned and fettled non ta car.
Also reliability issues have the potential to damage the company reputation when older cars get even older.
Real world testing will as pointed out above, show just how unclean these engines are, remember it's not really about mpg it's how many CO2s get made along the way and I suspect the real world figures aren't good for the T-A
Basically there are a few good reasons to kill the T-A at the moment and it's probably just about the right time
Fiat Panda 1.2 69hp: 69 hp at 5500 rpm, 102 Nm at 3000 rpm, 0-100 km/h: 14.2 sec, 164 km/h.
Fiat Panda 0.9 Twinair N/A: 60 hp at 6250 rpm, 88 Nm at 3500 rpm, 0-100 km/h: 16.7 sec, 158 km/h.
All numbers taken from the danish Panda brochure.
So overall the 1.2 is better in every way.
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I see! I must admit, I am surprised by the difference in performance between the 2!
