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General Owned my 500 for 4 days.... Dodgy car dealer.

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General Owned my 500 for 4 days.... Dodgy car dealer.

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Dtchbrd

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On Friday (late afternoon) I bought a 2009 Fiat 500 which was put through an MOT test as part of the sales agreement. The car passed 2nd time (failed due to headlights on the first test). It mentioned 2 tires as advisory.


The car had not been serviced for 3 years / 20000 miles. I did ask about the service history when viewing the car, but the sales guy was a bit chaotic and said he would show me in a bit. He then proceeded to talk about lots of other things and I basically forgot about it. Stupid I know!


I bought the car and when I checked the service history I noticed the car had not been service for 3 years. Booked my car in for a service at an independent local garage today. I asked these guys to give the car a check over because its a new car to me etc. The garage rang today and told my hubby that the shock absorbers are completely knackered. One tire is less than the legal limit and the brakes and calipers have gone. The garage also said that one tire has a bump in it (maybe not balanced properly? just my thought), which could potentially explain the vibrating I experienced on the motorway whilst driving between 67 - 73 mph? The problem is that I know nothing about cars! I trust this garage because I have had my car serviced there many times (I had a Yaris before). The garage said my car should never have passed MOT last Friday!


I am thinking I should contact vosa and report the MOT station. I have since googled the car dealer and come across several negative reviews (why didn't I check before buying??). Anyway, the guys at the garage seem to think that the car is good once the work has been done. I am so glad I booked the car in for a service and check at the earliest opportunity


What would you have done in my situation?
 
I assume the car dealer had some sort of deal going on with the MOT station. The MOT station is miles away from the car dealer. There are several MOT stations nearer to the car dealer.
 
I'm in Australia, but doesn't your car come with some sort of dealer warranty? Second hand cars here come with a statutory 3 month warranty. Might be worth checking on this.
 
The issues you are saying are not the end of the world at all esp for a 2009 model. Just fix them up and you'll be fine. You can't expect to buy a 5 year old cheaply built car and expect it to be in brand new condition !
 
I'm in Australia, but doesn't your car come with some sort of dealer warranty? Second hand cars here come with a statutory 3 month warranty. Might be worth checking on this.
 
Did you make any payment by credit card, i.e. at least £100? If you did and are able to show that the car wasn't sold in a reasonable fit for purpose condition, you might get redress. May we know, how much did you pay for the car? Horrible question to ask and if you don't want to answer that, I'll understand.

As for bumps or bulges in tyres, please have a look at the following link:

http://blog.autosquad.com/tire-sidewall-bubbles/
 
ahmett said:
The issues you are saying are not the end of the world at all esp for a 2009 model. Just fix them up and you'll be fine. You can't expect to buy a 5 year old cheaply built car and expect it to be in brand new condition !
Click to expand...

But you can expect it to be roadworthy!

As PsFiat suggests a warranty may (should?) be applicable.

Is there any sort of 'cooling off' period applicable? If so I'd say go back to the dealer and tell them you want to be recompensed for the cost of repairs, but still have them done at your trusted workshop. Otherwise threaten to return the car for full refund or approach whatever your equivalent is of our Small Claims Tribunal for redress.

As for the MOT station, they're either incompetent or taking kickbacks - report 'em.
 
If you get the work done take the bill into the people you bought the car off. Then threaten them with VOSA,is he gonna pay you the money back or have the checkered galaxy come and basically MOT every car they have on the lot? I think he'll pay the bill, BUT I would deffo report the MOT center to VOSA, far too many back hander MOT's get done, which to me is crazy considering the MOT center is basically saying to the government it's fit for road use, they could also take their test center licence off them.
 
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ahmett said:
The issues you are saying are not the end of the world at all esp for a 2009 model. Just fix them up and you'll be fine. You can't expect to buy a 5 year old cheaply built car and expect it to be in brand new condition !
Click to expand...

Of course I was not expecting it to be in brand new condition and I know it is not the end of the world, BUT I would not like other people to buy a car from there thinking essential parts are in OK condition (as the sales people will have you believe). Brakes are quite an important part of a car in my opinion, but that may just be me? I have always bought 2nd hand cars and had them MOT-ed before so I had no reason to distrust.


PsFiat said:
I'm in Australia, but doesn't your car come with some sort of dealer warranty? Second hand cars here come with a statutory 3 month warranty. Might be worth checking on this.
Click to expand...


The car came with a 30 day dealer warranty, but I have checked up on the garage since buying and there is quite a bit of negative feedback (similar stories to mine). Several people have tried going back, but with no result. Some people are taking them to court. I would not trust those guys to fix my car, but yes I will take my receipts to them and see what they say. I think I have learnt a lesson for the future.


frupi said:
Did you make any payment by credit card, i.e. at least £100? If you did and are able to show that the car wasn't sold in a reasonable fit for purpose condition, you might get redress. May we know, how much did you pay for the car? Horrible question to ask and if you don't want to answer that, I'll understand.

As for bumps or bulges in tyres, please have a look at the following link:

.....
Click to expand...


No I paid cash. I paid £5300 for the car. Thanks for the link. I will have a look at it in a bit.


Piccolo Nero e Bella said:
But you can expect it to be roadworthy!

As PsFiat suggests a warranty may (should?) be applicable.

Is there any sort of 'cooling off' period applicable? If so I'd say go back to the dealer and tell them you want to be recompensed for the cost of repairs, but still have them done at your trusted workshop. Otherwise threaten to return the car for full refund or approach whatever your equivalent is of our Small Claims Tribunal for redress.

As for the MOT station, they're either incompetent or taking kickbacks - report 'em.
Click to expand...


Thanks! Yes I will do just that! Report them.
 
Get a print out from your inspecting garage and go straight back to the dealer, as a first step.
Request repayment for your outlay for fixing these issues.

Be reasonable, take names, make notes immediately afterwards (or click your phone and record conversation). Make it clear you are unhappy with the car's condition.

Decide later if further action is needed, but make no threats or reveal what you intend.

Sweetsixteen.
 
The dealer is responsible for fixing those faults as they were present at time of sale (or, more precisely, they'll have a <Very> hard time proving they were not. MOT station worth reporting too.

Having said that, it sounds EXTREMELY stupid of the dealer/MOT station (who could well lose their testing licence over stuff like this) to put a fake MOT on for what are inexpensive to fix but really rather obvious faults (and then to draw attention to the tyres with an advisory!):

Tyre down below legal limit = £80 for a very good tyre (bridgestone) at retail, presumably much less for "budget" crap. Maybe this twice for the other "bulged" tyre and a bit of faff swapping to match on each axle. I could easily see this being "one person's 1.5mm is another person's 2mm" or the old "we advise you replace them now as they'll be gone before we see you next year" type of situation, or even just different measurement points. Advisory would explain this.

Shocks gone (all?). Shop4parts have complete set for a fraction over £100. Plus fitting at trade rates = not much. Would I be right in thinking that the garage have deduced this as they are leaking? Am I right in thinking that light leakage =/= MOT test fail?

"Brakes and calipers shot". Assuming a 1.2 I'm guessing it's front only, as rear drums last an awful long time. Pads and discs for the front from S4P are <£40, plus fitting. I'd suspect that knackered calipers => needing a good clean. I'm always sceptical about this sort of "urgent work" after a dodgy experience with a FIAT dealer. I believe the 500 has a "pads low" sensor so if the brakes are that far gone the fault would have reared it's head sooner rather than later. I also believe "pads worn close to limit" aren't grounds for a fail if the braking efficiency is still good and it's not practical to examine pad wear without removing a wheel.

Whilst it is possible that this is a bent MOT, doing that for <£400 of repairs at retail pricing is beyond stupid. I'd also not read too much into the "there are MOT stations nearer the dealer" situation as it could be a "mates rates" or "we've used them for years" situation.

Out of interest, what mileage/model/spec is the car? That sounds very cheap from a dealer- presumably partially due to the lack of service history and why you bought it? What sort of dealer are we talking about?

Personally, before storming in to the selling dealer I'd take the car ASAP to a council run (or otherwise) MOT depot that only does MOT testing to eliminate all possible variables. If they confirm your independent's findings then take it further.

If the faults reported are confirmed by the independent MOT test as immediate grounds for a failure (the offending tyre(s) are obviously well below the limit, the brakes are so far gone as to be ineffective/dangerous and the shocks are completely trashed etc.) then I'd consider reporting the dealer's MOT station and taking it up with the dealer. Depending on his reaction maybe trading standards.

As the car is stated to be "good other than the above" I'd probably get the faults fixed one way or another (dealer pays, you pay and the dealer refunds, dealer digs his heals in and wants to fight = report to trading standards and pay yourself or get small claims court involved- but even that is expensive for this level of money. Someone will suggest court, solicitors etc in a moment but for this level of money is it worth the hassle) rather than returning it.

As ahmett above says, there's nothing really extraordinary here for a car like the 500 at over 5 years old, so this is a fairly standard used car problem. Let's not lose perspective here. Easy for me to say that though.

The selling dealer might be an innocent party in all of this and there are some very stupid online reviewers out there. This might be a bent MOT, a dealer chancing his arm and hoping the faults stay hidden for more than 6 months, a difference of opinion between mechanics or a trusted local a bit short on work.
 
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zanes said:
The dealer is responsible for fixing those faults as they were present at time of sale (or, more precisely, they'll have a <Very> hard time proving they were not. MOT station worth reporting too.

Having said that, it sounds EXTREMELY stupid of the dealer/MOT station (who could well lose their testing licence over stuff like this) to put a fake MOT on for what are inexpensive to fix but really rather obvious faults (and then to draw attention to the tyres with an advisory!):

Tyre down below legal limit = £80 for a very good tyre (bridgestone) at retail, presumably much less for "budget" crap. Maybe this twice for the other "bulged" tyre and a bit of faff swapping to match on each axle. I could easily see this being "one person's 1.5mm is another person's 2mm" or the old "we advise you replace them now as they'll be gone before we see you next year" type of situation, or even just different measurement points. Advisory would explain this.

Shocks gone (all?). Shop4parts have complete set for a fraction over £100. Plus fitting at trade rates = not much. Would I be right in thinking that the garage have deduced this as they are leaking? Am I right in thinking that light leakage =/= MOT test fail?

"Brakes and calipers shot". Assuming a 1.2 I'm guessing it's front only, as rear drums last an awful long time. Pads and discs for the front from S4P are <£40, plus fitting. I'd suspect that knackered calipers => needing a good clean. I'm always sceptical about this sort of "urgent work" after a dodgy experience with a FIAT dealer. I believe the 500 has a "pads low" sensor so if the brakes are that far gone the fault would have reared it's head sooner rather than later. I also believe "pads worn close to limit" aren't grounds for a fail if the braking efficiency is still good and it's not practical to examine pad wear without removing a wheel.

Whilst it is possible that this is a bent MOT, doing that for <£400 of repairs at retail pricing is beyond stupid. I'd also not read too much into the "there are MOT stations nearer the dealer" situation as it could be a "mates rates" or "we've used them for years" situation.

Out of interest, what mileage/model/spec is the car? That sounds very cheap from a dealer- presumably partially due to the lack of service history and why you bought it? What sort of dealer are we talking about?

Personally, before storming in to the selling dealer I'd take the car ASAP to a council run (or otherwise) MOT depot that only does MOT testing to eliminate all possible variables. If they confirm your independent's findings then take it further.

If the faults reported are confirmed by the independent MOT test as immediate grounds for a failure (the offending tyre(s) are obviously well below the limit, the brakes are so far gone as to be ineffective/dangerous and the shocks are completely trashed etc.) then I'd consider reporting the dealer's MOT station and taking it up with the dealer. Depending on his reaction maybe trading standards.

As the car is stated to be "good other than the above" I'd probably get the faults fixed one way or another (dealer pays, you pay and the dealer refunds, dealer digs his heals in and wants to fight = report to trading standards and pay yourself or get small claims court involved- but even that is expensive for this level of money. Someone will suggest court, solicitors etc in a moment but for this level of money is it worth the hassle) rather than returning it.

As @ahmett above says, there's nothing really extraordinary here for a car like the 500 at over 5 years old, so this is a fairly standard used car problem. Let's not lose perspective here. Easy for me to say that though.

The selling dealer might be an innocent party in all of this and there are some very stupid online reviewers out there. This might be a bent MOT, a dealer chancing his arm and hoping the faults stay hidden for more than 6 months, a difference of opinion between mechanics or a trusted local a bit short on work.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your post. Your estimated price to get it fixed was spot on! Just a bit over £400. Like I said I am no expert, so it would be hard for me to have an opinion on brakes, suspension etc. For me the big issue was not the money as such, it was the fact that I was told my car should not have passed the MOT test. Of course I would have preferred to have the £430 in my pocket though hehehe. The garage gave me the shock absorbers in a plastic bag. Maybe I could take a picture for you? The calipers didn't need replacing and like you rightly said, just needed a clean in the end.


It was not a Fiat dealer. It was a small independent dealer. Nothing too fancy, but it looked decent enough. I bought the car because I liked it.
 
I just wanted to add that I am very happy with my car! (Just in case I came across as a bit of a moaner). I have wanted one since 2007. Hubby, our 2 boys and I are going to Holland in October and we have decided to go in my 500 rather than my hubby's Audi A4. Looking forward to it already!!


Also the car feels great with the new shock absorbers. Much smoother (still firm, but I like that) and the boys have reported greater comfort in the back. Also much less noisy now when going over bumps and uneven road surfaces.
 
Going in the 500 will add an extra element of fun to your trip! The boot obviously isn't suitcase-friendly, so efficient boot loading with soft bags will be essential with 2 kids filling your back seats. I've only the one nipper and I always need to use the empty rear seat for extra bags when the three of us decide to go away in our 500 rather than our other, bigger car.
 
Glad you got it sorted out and are reasonably happy with it (y) You came across as perfectly reasonable but these sorts of threads do have a habit of descending into well meaning but slightly over the top "legal advice", as the first line of my reply demonstrates. MOTs can be more subjective than a lot of people realise and it sounds like a case of that here.

I'd also be (rather!) annoyed at forking out more cash (as you probably got from the first line of my post above, which as you realise I've basically contradicted in everything else I've written once I had a think!) so soon after buying it but annoyingly there's not much you can really do- brakes (pads/discs) and tyres definitely come under "fair wear and tear" on a five year old vehicle and the shocks arguably are too- in any case the dealer could say "well, it passed the MOT (which was done OK as it picked up the tyres as advisory) and so wasn't really a problem".

On the other hand, at least you know they've been done, should be good for a few years and the vehicle has a clean bill of health. Better than the brake warning light coming on in the middle of Holland which is obviously exactly what you don't want with two children in the car!

It sounds like a dealer that picks up slightly "neglected" cars (wear and tear parts needing replacement, patchy service history etc.) on the slightly cheaper end of things, MOTs them and moves them on at slightly discount rates (for comparison, my old 500 went up at £7500 with around 50k miles on the clock). In fairness to them, at least they didn't falsify the service history (few fake stamps in the handbook, knock together a few false invoices and stick a few hundred quid on the asking price). Exactly the sort of thing that might annoy people (as it would me in the first instance) but is not really doing anything wrong (as I would realise once I'd calmed down a little).
 
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