Hi,

I have just bought a 1984 x 1/9 vs off ebay and there are a few niggling problems that I thought you may be able to help me with. Here goes.

*Carb - On trying to start the car for the first time yesterday I pulled out the choke noticing it was very stiff on operation. On removing the air filter assembly I noticed that the cable was the frayed mess and the actual actuating mechanism is broken off the carb. It looks like the plastic part snapped some time ago and there seem to be parts missing. The engine did not start unless fuel was sprayed into the carb, and then only for a few seconds. Am I correct in thinking that this would be normal for the car to not run when cold with the choke off or could there be other carb faults?

How available are parts for these weber carbs and what other vehicles were they used in? Hopefully you will say that they are the same as the uno as there are loads of rusty ones in my local scrappy!

*Electrics - The last owner put a blooming alarm system in, and its very annoying. I'm not looking forward to sorting that out so it works the central locking when the button is pressed, maybe I will just take it out. Anyhoo, the real problem is the electric windows. They dont work. My knowledge of electrics is limited, I have a multimeter but am only capable of checking voltage, dont really understand all that resistance lark as yet, but feel free to enlighten me. I checked voltage across the window switch and it showed around 1.5v. There are 6 connectors, 3 for the up and 3 for the down. What should I be testing for? Could it be a bad earth? Is having windows that dont work an mot failure? (for some reason the last owner fitted a manual handle to the driver side)

*Brakes - The front brakes on the car are stuck on slightly, the car can be moved but much force is needed (4ppl). I have taken the caliper off and popped out the piston. It needed quite alot of foot pressure on the brake pedal to get the piston out, so I was expecting a rusty old thing. but the piston looks smooth and shiney. I will give the piston a good polish and grease the sliders. If the brakes still stick after this what problems could there be.. master cylinder?? The disks are in good nick, as are the pads.

*Blinkers - The indicators seem pretty slow in operation at around one blink a second. However they blink fine when operating the alarm..any ideas?

Thats all, well apart from the rust! Hey I cant moan for 150 quid can i!

regards,
Tris.

any ideas people? anyone on here?

Not sure what is going on with this car - it sounds like it has been "bodged" repeatedly to solve small problems. The end result is lots of big problems. On the other hand I just paid £150 for a dead wreck on an X1/9 so don't feel bad about it, that really is a bargain price!

The carburettor on an 84 shouldn't have a choke - they are supposed to be semi-automatic choke (press the throttle twice before turning the key) and these are generally reliable unless the cooling system has been boiled badly at some point (the feeder pipe chalks up). The carburettor in question is pretty much unique to the X1/9 - there are very similar carbs used on other Fiats (and a few other cars) but this is the only one that has even vaguely correct jetting. If you are stuck just let me know as I now have a spare carb knocking around that was complete (when I looked but it was dark) and should just bolt on.

The central locking is not standard - no X1/9 ever came with central locking from the factory. I suspect this is part of the alarm.

The electric windows however are likely to be original, a bad earth is more than likely the culprit as you shouldn't find a 1.5v drop anywhere on that circuit - 12v or nothing is the general rule.

The indicators have never been "fast" but from your description they do sound a little slow - again a bad earth may be the culprit or the flasher relay is just old and tired. Check all of the bulbs in the circuit are working and correctly seated. The alarm uses internal logic to turn the indicators on and off whereas the flasher relay is rather more old-school and is dependent on the current drawn through all of the indicator bulbs. One thing that is very, very worth checking is the steering column itself as the various stalk electrics have a tendency to "cook" over the years which can mess things up a bit.

The brakes are likely to be just in need of a good service - the slider mechanism on these cars is very prone to rusting and sticking at the slightest provocation. When there is salt on the road and the car is not being used daily the slider will need greasing every 6 to 8 weeks to keep them working 100%. Get a flap wheel on the slider mechanism and shims before greasing them and you should find it works far, far better.

If you can find a dead uno turbo with the front brakes intact I would suggest grabbing the calipers and mounting frames - piston bore is identical but the sliding mechanism is much more reliable plus you gain vented discs as a bonus. The downside is not all of the standard X1/9 rims will fit over the Uno caliper.

Still on the subject of brakes - a word of warning! While the caliper is dismantled you should find a way to support the brake pedal so it doesn't put any pressure on the master cylinder. Better still the flexi lines should be clamped up to prevent them draining. The master cylinder has a nasty habit of bottoming out the second piston and when you recharge the circuit only the first piston will operate.

Best of luck

Julian

hi,

im trying to find a manual choke kit for the carb. has anyone got any idea who stocks them? I have just got off the phone to alternative autos and they say that the kit isn't made any longer. anyone you can recommend for a new or used kit?

Pretty much any weber kit could be made to work but the difficulty is the potential length of cable and where to mount it. Personally I would make sure the autochoke system is made to work as it really does make life easier and is generally very reliable. The trick is almost entirely down to bleeding the system properly and the plumbing for the autochoke actually makes this easier due to being the highest point in the cooling system.

The only other place I can recommend is CASCU (http://www.cascu.co.uk/Start.htm)

It looks like the vehicle was fitted with a manual choke from new as it looks as old as the car. Also I see no reference to an auto choke in my haynes manual. Im gonna have to try lookin at other weber carbs in the scrappy to see what i can find. cascu dont have any in at the mo unfortunatly.

Brakes, could be the flex hoses, these can look OK from outside, but can collapse internally and cause the brakes to bind. Take them off and you should be able to blow by mouth thru them easily, watch out brake fluid tastes crap.

84 carb X19 definitely came with a water actuated choke mechanism as standard.

Its a DATRA carb.... the second A stands for AQUA or water in Italian. Only the very early 1300's had a manual choke mechanism... thats a DMTR... M for Manual.

SteveC

trissy said:

It looks like the vehicle was fitted with a manual choke from new as it looks as old as the car. Also I see no reference to an auto choke in my haynes manual. Im gonna have to try lookin at other weber carbs in the scrappy to see what i can find. cascu dont have any in at the mo unfortunatly.

Click to expand...

check the carb number which is stamped on the bottom housing. i bet it says DATRA. i think its had a choke conversion in the past, proberly due to an inoperative auto choke. close the flap on the carb wenturi by hand, and see if the car starts. if so, you will need to connect the cable to the choke flap somehow.
The electric window problem possibly is a broken wire where it enters the door at the A pillar. you need a contiuity tester. either buy one[it has a sharp point for prodding wires], or make one with wires and a test bulb.
brakes possibly catching on the sliders. clean the sliders up and take the corners off the pads. put some copaslip on to aid sliding and to stop seizing up. don't get it on the pad surface or disc though.
indicators problem either the relay[likely], poor wire or bulb connection, or stalk.

trissy said:

It looks like the vehicle was fitted with a manual choke from new as it looks as old as the car. Also I see no reference to an auto choke in my haynes manual. Im gonna have to try lookin at other weber carbs in the scrappy to see what i can find. cascu dont have any in at the mo unfortunatly.

Click to expand...

I said it before - your car did not come with a manual choke. The only ones that did were the 1300s and they stopped making them in '78. The Haynes manual was composed using a 1300. All of the changes thereafter are listed in the supplement (chapter 13 I think). If by some fluke you have the original print of the manual it won't have that supplement in it.

The easy way to tell is to look at the pipework coming from the waterpump across the back of the engine. There should be a feed to the carb there that is likely been either blanked or just looped off elsewhere.

If you want the proper carb for you car I have one ready and waiting.

thanks for your replies guys, i will go over and check out the things you mentioned on the car tomorrow and keep you posted.

regards.

Hello again.

A quick question about the MOT test. Does the mot require the windows to operate up and down? The electric windows dont work as i mentioned, however the drivers side has had a manual winder fitted so the window operates.

The past owner informs me that the car had work done to it before passing its mot last, so do you think the last owner got lazy and fitted this to pass, instead of finding the electrical fault?


Basically im blabbering and need to know if the car will pass with the passenger window inoperative.

regards,
tris.

Not sure about that one - as I understood it the MOT requires all equipment on the car to be operational but that could be taken to extremes and mean that even the stereo has to be operational. This is obviously not the case but I don't know the extent of what those requirements really are.

There is no requirement that the windows go up and down as it is permissable to have them fixed in position. I would imagine that the driver's window was "fixed" as a matter of convenience (for carparks etc.)

A quick google comes up with this site: http://www.motester.co.uk/cog.html which covers pretty much everything tested and you can see that the door windows are not covered.

hi.
Finally replaced the carb and fitted some new pipes as the old ones looked a little scruffy. I dont want my fiat to be one of those "spares only" cars that has just had an engine fire from leeky pipes. On inspection of the carb i took off..It has 34 DMTR 87/251 6A stamped on it.

So where do you think this carb is from? The 1300s were a 32 DMTR yeah? I presume its off another model. Just a little curious thats all. Unluckily for me the daylight sooned turned to darkness so I didn't get a chance to start the engine. Wish me luck tomorrow!

A 34 DMTR 87/251 would almost definitely have been taken from a late Regata 85.

The venturi are listed as standard are 22 and 24.
Idle jets listed as 47 and 70
Main jets are 107 and 127
Air correction jets 180 and 220
Emulsion tubes are both F30

The 34 DATR (I didn't check which version but it should be the 7/250) has the following
Venturi are 23 and 26
Idle jets are 47 and 70 (identical)
Main jets are 107 and 130
Air correction jets are 160 and 150
Emulsion tubes are both F30

What it amounts to is that the smaller engined X1/9 would run identically with both right up until the second venturi opens up, with the DATR it should then fly by comparison to the DMTR - assuming the DMTR wasn't rejetted. The Regata had the carb tuned for economy, the X1/9 was set up more for performance.

the engine starts and will rev but will not idle for long. When it does its very rough. There is also alot of white/grey smoke from the exhaust. Could this be the head gasket or would there be any other reasons for this?

The engine had not been started for 4 years prior to the other day, can a head gasket deteriorate through lack of use? The coolant level is low and there is some white residue around the water pump so maybe a leak and overheating occured b4 storage?

Up for a challenge!

thanks.

PS, if it is a head gasket, are they easy to get hold of?

P.S

I havent had a chance to get the engine up to running temp as I dont want to p**s the nieghbours off to much with the smoke cover!

remove a plug and see if theres petrol in the oil, have you seviced the car at all?

The engine has new points, dizzy cap and plugs. the oil has been changed also.

Ok i finally have had a chance to look at the car today...Topped up coolant and run engine until up to running temp...these are my findings:

*Water pump shows signs of leakage from white fluffy residue surrounding it. Very rough and noisey when in operation.

*Engine will not run on idle

*White smoke from exhaust (smells of petrol)

*Engine less willing to rev as warms up

Stop engine and check the coolant. The coolant is now bubbly and brown with a very slight odour. Maybe just crap in the system, but possibility of oil contamination. Plugs 1,3,4 are wet and smell of petrol, plug 2 is black and sooty. The oil filler cap has a very thin layer of white mayo oil and the oil on the dipstick smells slightly of petrol.

I think the last owners took the car out of storage an ran the engine with a low water level or none at all making the car overheat and damaging the head gasket, would these symptoms back-up my theory?

Also it seems I need crows-foot spanners to remove the head with the cam still attached. I have draper ones, but they still dont reach. Are there spanners that do reach these bolts?, such as longer reach ones, or is the haynes manual wrong on this issue.

regards,

tris.

it sounds like the engine is in basically good shape.

yes the head gasket does "rot" if the car isn't used - this problem persists with the modern engines too.

if i had to put a finger on the problem i would say it sounds like water is leaking into the cylinders at a slow rate - more than likely the result of a characteristic failure in the fire rings between cylinders 2 and 3.

head gasket is easy to obtain, i would suggest either a genuine fiat item or a payen pattern copy - both have adhesive coverings that improves the seal. it makes them a pig to remove and clean up but the finished result is better.

taking the cam carrier off the engine is the easiest option for removing the head. just make sure you catch all of the shim buckets and more importantly label them so they go back in the same place. you will need to get the engine reshimmed anyway but at least you have a head start this way. given the age and wear of the engine it really is a job that should be done regardless.

if you want to take the head off complete then you really need the proper crowsfoot spanners and the fiat ones are nigh-impossible to obtain now. you can get alternatives from other sources (like snap-on) but you will likely pay a dear price.

other jobs you need to do:

change the timing belt tensioner bearing - this is more likely to be the noisy bit than the waterpump. they do leak a little but unless it is dripping out of the shaft seal i wouldn't worry too much

obviously change the timing belt - this will probably be rotten if the car was left for 4 years. in fact much of the rubber components will be suspect now - a pain but you need to keep an eye out for all sorts of leaks until everything is bedded in again.

one of the nastiest bits is that the radiator will probably be shot - at least half the cores will be permanently blocked. you can get the rad recored at your local rad shop (i suggest serck marston if you have one near you - they provide a lifetime warranty).

make sure you bookmark cascu for ordering parts

and don't give up - these cars are amazing

edited to add:
forgot to say but it sounds like your ignition timing isnt right - either the static timing is off or the advance isnt working. before you do anything else check this out.

trissy said:

The engine had not been started for 4 years prior to the other day, can a head gasket deteriorate through lack of use? The coolant level is low and there is some white residue around the water pump so maybe a leak and overheating occured b4 storage?

Click to expand...

Coollant in the water cooling of an engine will corode the gasket over a given time... 4 years standing won't have helped at all.

if you are running the engine with the incorrect carb you may get a completely innapropriate fuel mixture, some of which can cause whiteish smoke to be emitted.