Technical Which ball joint for Ducato?

[Roog321]

I have a Fiat Ducato on a maxi chassis and I am trying to figure out which ball joint I require for the front suspension lower arm. Is it possible to know which one to buy based on the VIN, year of manufacture etc?

there appear to be two sizes.

 

[bugsymike]

I have a Fiat Ducato on a maxi chassis and I am trying to figure out which ball joint I require for the front suspension lower arm. Is it possible to know which one to buy based on the VIN, year of manufacture etc?

there appear to be two sizes.

Most Motor Factors can supply using Reg.Number these days and good ones will know to tell you which one they sell the most for certain vehicles such as Maxi versions, they may even keep notes on the computer re any issues when supplying.
I know many years ago I had a customer with a Fiat Ducato 2.8 Maxi High Top Van that required the larger heavy duty version of front lower ball joint, so back then there was definitely two choices. From memory it physically was different so you may be able to compare before purchase if you inspect it.

 

[Roog321]

Thank you @bugsymike, I can see that it is a 4 bolt fixing but the motor factor I have previously used has asked for dimensions of the pin which you can only reliably measure when the unit is dismantled.As the van (a motor home) is stored in a yard 1 hours travel from my home I was hoping to avoid any extra remote working, the once would be more than enough. :0)

the chassis is a 3500kg plated to 3850kg so they may be the heav duty units, but I cant be sure.

 

[bugsymike]

Thank you @bugsymike, I can see that it is a 4 bolt fixing but the motor factor I have previously used has asked for dimensions of the pin which you can only reliably measure when the unit is dismantled.As the van (a motor home) is stored in a yard 1 hours travel from my home I was hoping to avoid any extra remote working, the once would be more than enough. :0)

the chassis is a 3500kg plated to 3850kg so they may be the heav duty units, but I cant be sure.

Sometimes the spanner size of centre nut can be a guide , but I agree tricky if 1 hour away from vehicle.
If you use the factors regularly could they supply both but give you a full refund on the one not required? I know it would have been easier for me as I was on a trade account settled monthly, but if the factors cannot say for sure, then hopefully they may give that option, mine were always very helpful.

 

[Roog321]

I am quite tempted to order both, but it makes it an expensive repair as i am terrible at the whole returning stuff, I usually suck it up.
One thing I have have noticed is that the two ball joints i am being offered have different bolt threads, one is 16mm and the other is 18mm, from my photo I can see that the thread is accessible so whilst it will require an extra visit I can hopefully judge the correct one from the thread?

In fact the fault reported is: 'dust boot spilt replace' so I could just replace that, but I still need to measure the thing and drop the lower suspension arm to fit it so I thought just replace the ball joint, Plus it is 18 years old (Only 30k miles though)

Do you think its worth just replacing the boot?

 

[bugsymike]

Looking at the photo I would have gone for the heavy duty one, but always tricky for sure.
Only a suggestion, but buy the heavy duty one and a pack of universal dust covers/boots, if you are happy there is no issue with the ball joint it's self, then if worse comes to the worse you have only bought one wrong joint, you still have to knock off that bottom taper joint which may need a special tool although I have always managed on my own with a 3ft long crow bar held down with my foot to exert downward force and a very large copper mallet once nut off. Retired now so probably couldn't manage it but when fit a max of three good well aimed wallops would shift most joints. Just don't miss and pein the threads over as you will have to fit a joint then.
Re the boot the universal kits come with several size boots and some wire spring clips which can be a bit of a fiddle to wrap around to secure the large end, so if they didn't co operate I had some locking wire which did the job as a bit to narrow for wire ties. I would also put a blob of grease in the joint and work the swivel around before fitting.
Hopefully joint is correct, as best option.
You probably know this but once wheel off try and secure the hub assembly to once side out of the way , but without it pulling drive shaft joints out of position.

 

[Roog321]

Thank you @bugsymike I like your idea of arriving with a couple of options, I recon your guess of 'its a heavy duty one' might well be correct (although its still a bit of a risk as i would like to do both sides) and having a set of universal boots to hand will give me an option on the day.

The hubs were previously replaced as part of replacing the wheel bearings a few years ago, (the sorry tale is somewhere in this very forum) so at least the assembly 'should' come apart.

As an aside, I replaced the lower control arms on my Fiat 500 last year and it came apart more easily than I expected, I recall I used a few taps/light blows from a 1kg common jobbing hammer. Must remember to first find then pack lots of WD40, my ball joint splitter, blunt cold chisels and lump hammer when I go to do the job on the van! I really do have to pack for all eventualities.

Cheers Paul

 

[bugsymike]

Thank you @bugsymike I like your idea of arriving with a couple of options, I recon your guess of 'its a heavy duty one' might well be correct (although its still a bit of a risk as i would like to do both sides) and having a set of universal boots to hand will give me an option on the day.

The hubs were previously replaced as part of replacing the wheel bearings a few years ago, (the sorry tale is somewhere in this very forum) so at least the assembly 'should' come apart.

As an aside, I replaced the lower control arms on my Fiat 500 last year and it came apart more easily than I expected, I recall I used a few taps/light blows from a 1kg common jobbing hammer. Must remember to first find then pack lots of WD40, my ball joint splitter, blunt cold chisels and lump hammer when I go to do the job on the van! I really do have to pack for all eventualities.

Cheers Paul

You sound pretty sorted, but this being a commercial then it is a lot more heavy duty taper joint etc. I would suggest a long crow bar or even a piece of scaffold tube to exert downward force on bottom arm as it makes a lot of difference when trying to break the taper, I also use a 3/4 drive socket set as I have seen 1/2 drive T bars bend trying to undo some.
The reason for the copper mallet is more force but less damage.
Presumably a good garage jack and axle stands. I bought a s/h 6 tonne commercial trolley jack when replacing the green oak keel on an old boat of mine, so lifting 3.5 tonne Iveco Daily's and Ducato's with almost one finger was a pleasure.

 

[Roog321]

I’ll invest in a crow bar.
and I will make sure that I bring lots of timber sleeper offcuts to make sure the thing can’t fall on me.
I might not be discovered until the evening watchman does his rounds, eek!

 

[Communicator]

I have a Fiat Ducato on a maxi chassis and I am trying to figure out which ball joint I require for the front suspension lower arm. Is it possible to know which one to buy based on the VIN, year of manufacture etc?

there appear to be two sizes.

I have only scanned the remainder of the thread, but have you tried inputting your VIN to ePER, which is available via tab at the top of the page?

 

[Roog321]

No I haven’t, thank you for the advice I’ll give it a try

 

[jackwhoo]

If it is a maxi chassis with the larger wheels and wheel studs then likely larger ball joint

 

[Roog321]

Hi @jackwhoo my thinking too, but having been caught out before, I thought I would check here.

As per @Communicator advice I checked ePER against my VIN and it comes up with just part code: 1331641080 which I believe is the larger of the two I have seen listed elsewhere.

Thank you everyone for your advice, I now have a plan!