Technical What is the second wire connected to +ve on the battery?

[keiron99]

Question as per the title. I notice that the battery has two wires connected to the positive. One of them is quite thin. Just out of interest really, what is it for?

 

[UFI]

Intelligent Battery Monitor.

 

[keiron99]

Intelligent Battery Monitor.

Thanks. What does that do exactly?

 

[UFI]

From Fiat: Avoid being stranded with a dead battery. Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) monitors your battery and automatically shuts off less-critical electrical systems to conserve battery
power while alerting you with an icon in your instrument display.

In practice it's also responsible for the alternator charge profile and S/S parameters.

 

[keiron99]

From Fiat: Avoid being stranded with a dead battery. Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) monitors your battery and automatically shuts off less-critical electrical systems to conserve battery
power while alerting you with an icon in your instrument display.

In practice it's also responsible for the alternator charge profile and S/S parameters.

Thanks. truth be told, I was looking for a "work around" way of permanently disabling the pesky Start Stop (please, no debate here about the merits of this system ). It looks like disconnecting this cable would indeed do that, but perhaps have a series of other consequences too.

Can't help thinking there must be a simple wire somewhere for the Start Stop that could be pulled...

 

[UFI]

Fit a LiFe battery S/S doesn't like my 14.4Ah LiFe. A smaller than normal lead acid battery should also work.

Have you tried disconnecting the quick connector post (not the IBS) and just reconnecting after a few seconds? That should kill S/S but it may come back after a while.

I wouldn't try running the car without IBS connected. Unfortunately, with CANBUS cars, the days of DIY electrical mods are largely over. It's fallen a long way down my to do list, but I've been thinking of feeding IBS a false voltage signal to see if I can bring my S/S back, if it works, you could to the same in reverse. If you do disable S/S, you'll still get a 'S/S unavailable' message on the MFD at every engine start, but the big S logo should not illuminate.

 

[keiron99]

Have you tried disconnecting the quick connector post (not the IBS) and just reconnecting after a few seconds? That should kill S/S but it may come back after a while.

Thanks. I've not tried that. Where would I find that connector? There's nothing immediately obvious under the bonnet.

Fit a LiFe battery S/S doesn't like my 14.4Ah LiFe. A smaller than normal lead acid battery should also work.

Is it generally acknowledged that fitting this battery cases SS to disable, or is it just on your car? What battery is it exactly? I tried Googling but nothing came up.

 

[UFI]

Thanks. I've not tried that. Where would I find that connector? There's nothing immediately obvious under the bonnet.

There's a red clip that lets you disconnect the VE+ lead from the battery without tools. Have you stereo code handy though.

Is it generally acknowledged that fitting this battery cases SS to disable, or is it just on your car? What battery is it exactly? I tried Googling but nothing came up.

I made my own:

It's chemistry is different so that it doesn't satisfy S/S parameters. No lights or warning messages.

The battery has to be pretty full for S/S to work (with my stock battery, S/S would not work after a week of sitting - took about 15kms for it to kick in). A smaller (conventional) battery might do the trick. Would be cheap to try if you can borrow one from another car or just buy a used one. Depends on how badly you want S/S gone I guess.

If I get S/S working, I'll probably be able to tell you how to disble it too

 

[keiron99]

.
I made my own:

You made your own battery?

Depends on how badly you want S/S gone I guess.

Very I just keep forgetting to press the button and realise the scary way when hillhold doesn't work and I start rolling!

If I get S/S working, I'll probably be able to tell you how to disble it too

I'll try disconnecting the connector trick (but it does seem unlikely that that would disable it).

Meantime if there is an off-the-shelf battery anyone can recommend that is guaranteed to work (or not work, as it were), please let me know!

 

[Aussie500nut]

Hey guys, I'm lurking here hopefully to find a cure to get rid of the pesky S/S once and for all (too)
and not have to have the yellow S/S icon all the time

With the battery I'm guessing we could run with one that's about 1/2 the capacity of the OEM one needed for S/S
The weight saving with that will probably save more fuel than the S/S in my case

 

[UFI]

I'll try disconnecting the connector trick (but it does seem unlikely that that would disable it).

It should work as if you fit a new battery, you have to follow a specific procedure to get S/S working. By skipping this, S/S shouldn't work. Disconnect the VE+ then IBS connector, leave for 30 seconds, and reconnect, IBS first. What I've also found is that this means the alternator charges the battery less than it otherwise would, so it seems to never get to that 'S/S parameters satisfied' point. This may shorten the life span of your battery, but I'm sure some will argue that S/S will kill the battery anyway.

Of course, you could also get the update that remembers the last S/S setting (this is a good idea anyway as it's possible S/S might come back after a month or two using this method).

 

[UFI]

With the battery I'm guessing we could run with one that's about 1/2 the capacity of the OEM one needed for S/S
The weight saving with that will probably save more fuel than the S/S in my case

Don't go crazy The OE non S/S battery is 60Ah from memory, while the S/S is only 63Ah.

On a daily driven car used mostly during daytime, 30-40Ah should be safe. Going too small can fool the alternator into thinking the battery is weak and that can lead to over charging. Get a cheap tested battery from a wrecker (or Gumtree) for your experiments. Most of the over sizing of LA batteries is for cold weather starting, LA batteries don't like being cold, but we don't really have that worry.

Having said that, UFI only gets used once a week (sometimes not even that) and the 14Ah LiFe has been working perfectly (other than S/S not working), but that's not really relevant to lead acid batteries. It only took 7Ah of LiFe cells (900grams) for UFI to start and run fine though, the rest is just head room

 

[keiron99]

Disconnect the VE+ then IBS connector, leave for 30 seconds, and reconnect, IBS first.

Logic would seem to suggest you should disconnect the IBS first and reconnect last in order to fool the system - surely disconnecting it AFTER removing the power cable would have no impact?

Anyway, I will test that of course. But where is the IBS connector? What am I looking for?

Of course, you could also get the update that remembers the last S/S setting (this is a good idea anyway as it's possible S/S might come back after a month or two using this method).

Unfortunately my car is too old to benefit from the update.

 

[UFI]

There's a red clip that lets you disconnect the VE+ lead from the battery without tools.

This should say red clip that disconnects the (black) earth lead.

Logic would seem to suggest you should disconnect the IBS first and reconnect last in order to fool the system - surely disconnecting it AFTER removing the power cable would have no impact?

Anyway, I will test that of course. But where is the IBS connector? What am I looking for?

The IBS is connected independantly of the rest of the car, so when you disconnect the earth lead, the IBS is still working. That way a mechanic can work on the car without affecting IBS and causing problems.

The IBS is the black box on the negative post of the battery (should have a Marelli sticker on it). There's a connector on it that runs to the VE+ terminal.

 

[Aussie500nut]

Don't go crazy The OE non S/S battery is 60Ah from memory, while the S/S is only 63Ah.

In a way I'm new to all this battery stuff, meaning, whilst I'm an ol' fart, whenever I have bought batteries in the past I usually get a "good" brand as opposed to a "budget" type and I usually get reasonable service. In a lot of cases we sell the car with the original OEM battery still going strong.

Now I believe the battery in the TA and perhaps other engined S/S cars as well, is a different much higher spec to those without S/S. Is this so ??

If "yes" then in my case where S/S is going to be retired permanently, there is no need to get the higher spec battery.
Would that be a fair and reasonable conclusion or are there other things that rely on the better battery ?

On a daily driven car used mostly during daytime, 30-40Ah should be safe. Most of the over sizing of LA batteries is for cold weather starting, LA batteries don't like being cold, but we don't really have that worry.

Yes, ours is used every day, had it now for 2 1/2 months and done 5,500kms
So yes, the 1/2 of the original at 30 or 40ah seems the go and as far as low temperatures are concerned, 6 degrees Celsius in considered "low" here is Queensland

 

[UFI]

Now I believe the battery in the TA and perhaps other engined S/S cars as well, is a different much higher spec to those without S/S. Is this so ??

If "yes" then in my case where S/S is going to be retired permanently, there is no need to get the higher spec battery.
Would that be a fair and reasonable conclusion or are there other things that rely on the better battery ?

Correct. The S/S batteries are more expensive to replace, but the spec isn't really that different to a standard battery.

I would look at a small AGM battery if you want a plug and play solution. UFI started and ran fine on the equivalent of a 21Ah battery, and since you can't even leave your lights on accidentally, a 40Ah AGM would work fine. I do note that a 40Ah battery is only ~2kg's lighter than the stock S/S unit. I believe the Honda Jazz has the smallest battery on the market, it's a 40Ah, going smaller will mean different battery terminals (not an insurmountable problem, but something to watch for). Some smaller batteries come without posts so car posts can be fitted easily.

 

[Aussie500nut]

UFI
Thanks for your advice
One quick question though

.................AGM battery...............

AGM......

 

[keiron99]

UFI, thanks for the guidance. However I have just had the bonnet up and cannot relate your instructions to what I see.

I’ve taken a picture and numbered the connectors.

Could you please tell me what order I should disconnect them in and what order I should put them back in?

Many thanks.

 

[306maxi]

This is going to come across as patronising, but if you think that the connectors for the ECU are at all related then you REALLY should just close the bonnet and not tinker with your car.

UFI's instructions are actually quite clear.

Please close the bonnet before you go breaking something........

 

[keiron99]

306 maxi.I think we have established you don't like me and, it seems, seek out every opportunity to patronise, insult and denigrate me. There really is no need to keep labouring the point.

Your complete lack of knowledge on how dualogic works did not prevent you posting totally incorrect advice on those threads.