Technical Water in the diesel

[Ralf S.]

Now mates,

Gerrard decided to take the winter off .. the headlight high beams weren't working for the MOT, so it needed a new Body Control Module (computer) transplant to eventually resolve things.

Then some new calipers and handbrake cables.. (although I've had various same-era Fiat and Alfa.. so I can now change these in my sleep.. )

Anyhoo.. the beast was laid up inactive for three months all told.

Since the MOT.. when Dr Death the MOT man apparently tried to destroy the dark evil that lurks inside it by revving the b'Jesus out of it.. the car has taken *just* a bit longer to start and idles a bit lumpier than before. It runs and everything else is fine but it's not quite "where it was"..

It could just be me (become used to a nice petrol in the meantime.. ) but I'm not sure. Could the beast be suffering from water in the diesel? How does that happen?

I know it has a "water detector" on the filter.... but it's not reporting anything... and I've had a few tanks of diesel through it since he's back on the road and it *may* be getting better .. or it could all be my imagination.

What's the collective opinion? Do I need to run some "Water remover" additive through it, or is that just snake oil/waster of a tenner?


Ralf S.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Turn the outlet attached to the underside of the filter, and wait untill pure fuel is coming out.
Also maybe run a (few) tank(s) of premium fuel ( V-Power, Ultimate, etc.) to clean injectors and such, or just pour a bottle injector cleaner in the tank..

 

[sumplug]

The revving these MOT idiots do can lodge crap in the injectors, especially after a lay up.
One way is a little bit of petrol. It will clean the lines and injectors. Or two bottles of injector cleaner, and a 10 mile 'italian tune up' down the motorway.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Petrol has no lubrification aspects, even a little can damage sensitive injectors, injector cleaner is a far better option.

 

[Ralf S.]

I didn't know there was a tap on the bottom of the filter housing - I'll have a poke around and see if I can drain it. I'm hoping that it just feels "rough" because I was in a petrol-engine car for the best part of 3 months.. Sometimes refitting a plastic cover so it doesn't vibrate makes a big difference too.

The beast actually runs okay and mpg is only a little worse than in the summer. I've got some 2-EHN firewater for it .. but I may try some proprietary injector cleaner too.

Hopefully it's nothing severe.. but the "soot on the injectors" theory could have some mileage - the amount that came out during the smoke test was quite alarming... Probably an advert for not using supermarket diesel (cheap but no additives)... although if the beast was in use before the MOT I'd have been using it more and given the rev-counter a bit more work than usual, just to help out on the MOT...


Ralf S.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

If you realy want it to stop smoking , delete the EGR, but don't tell Greenpeace...!!

 

[ArthurM]

Hi Ralf s. I notice you say twice that you have been using a petrol car of late. Has someone put petrol in your other car . I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you.

 

[Davren]

I didn't know there was a tap on the bottom of the filter housing

It's not a tap, it's the screw on cap at the bottom of the replaceable filter. Put a small container under it, then unscrew the cap until fuel comes out. Do it a few times until no water is coming out. You may need to disconnect the water in fuel sensor connector at the bottom of the cap.
.

 

[Ralf S.]

If you realy want it to stop smoking , delete the EGR, but don't tell Greenpeace...!!

The EGR is still in there to keep Greenpeace happy. But I noticed it was getting sooted up... so I put a blanking plate either side of it, to keep the soot out. It seems much happier..


Ralf S.

 

[Ralf S.]

Hi Ralf s. I notice you say twice that you have been using a petrol car of late. Has someone put petrol in your other car . I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you.

First time I refilled it I was stood in the petrol station for 5 minutes while I worked out which fuel I had to put in... but it's the right stuff. Usually I fill it right up from 1/4 full, so it can't be the wrong fuel or it wouldn't run at all.

I am going to replace the battery soon which might help, since the beast was stood for 3 months. Even though I charged it up every two weeks it did go flat enough that the car didn't start a couple of times.

I don't know if there is a current drain problem ... I'll check that first... but the battery looks pretty old (5 or 6 years old?) and it's the smaller type that was fitted (027), so my guess is it's genuinely worn out. I'm going to stick an 096 in there.


Ralf S.

 

[Ralf S.]

It's not a tap, it's the screw on cap at the bottom of the replaceable filter. Put a small container under it, then unscrew the cap until fuel comes out. Do it a few times until no water is coming out. You may need to disconnect the water in fuel sensor connector at the bottom of the cap.
.

Cheers for that. I've seen the black doodah but only in situ' .. so I wouldn't have thought to unscrew it. I'll give that a try.

I'm going to give it a brand new 096 battery too. That'll crank it much faster, which may be part of the problem. My 027 looks fairly old and it didn't hold a charge very well anyway, even before it was off the road for a couple of months/assuming no current drain problems etc.). More juice could solve a couple of Gerrard's issues..


Ralf S.

 

[sumplug]

Petrol has no lubrication aspects, even a little can damage sensitive injectors, injector cleaner is a far better option.

Peter, it's common knowledge truck owners put 5% petrol in their diesel, and use it as a cleaner. In Scandinavia, petrol is used, to stop the diesel from freezing.
I suggested a one off petrol add to clean injectors. 1 litre of petrol, and 20 litres of diesel, will not damage the injectors.
There is an engine called the Diesel-Gas engine. It uses petrol as a Catalyst.
If you take the injector cleaner route, use something like Miller's Injector Cleaner, and add it direct into the fuel filter, not the tank.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Modern JTD injectors are very sensitive components and will be damaged by that amount of petrol, so don't do it!
In the early days it was common practice indeed, but not with todays sophisticated injection systems, I'm afraid.

 

[Artermis]

If it's been sat for a while never under estimate the power of an italian tune up (I know in your case MOT permitting).

 

[Ralf S.]

The latest development.......

I've just worked out the fuel consumption based on the mileage rather than the rosy picture the computer was telling me. It's collapsed to around 29mpg... bearing in mind I drive like an old fella and usually get 50mpg. I put the first poor figure down to it getting MOT'd.. but the next tankful has done the same shonky figures.

So... "Engine Fault" on the dash... car cranks an imperceptible amount longer when starting and the idle is a bit more vibratory than before. Otherwise performance feels "okay"... though arguably a bit flatter over 3000rpms.

Assuming no pipes loose/split/worn out... do I need to worry about my injectors or could it be a random MAF fault etc.

The other stuff (Lambada and the boost valve under the airbox) are fairly new.

Ralf S.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Engine fault light comes on= (have it) read the ECU.
Stop guessing what maybe wrong...
Do you already have your own codereader yet..?

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Fault...907524?hash=item234294dd04:g:S-8AAOSwEppUS2Cl

 

[sumplug]

Iam betting Lambda sensor has failed, due to all the crap that passed through, when the MOT was done.
Oh Peter, a one off use of 5% petrol will NOT harm the injectors. Constant use, can burn the tips.
A well known Diesel specialist, first uses this technique to clean injectors.
You can also use two stroke oil as well. This eliminates tip burning.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Two stroke oil is sometimes used to lubricate the fuelpump, it has no cleaning affects on the injectors at all.
I use this at every third fill-up or so, to boost the lubrification and cleaning affects of the premium dieselfuel I use.
Still on the original, first fuelpump, injectors and turbo after about 250000 mls...on my 2004 jtd, 150HP Alfa GT.

https://products.liqui-moly.com/speed-diesel-additive-3.html

 

[Ralf S.]

Engine fault light comes on= (have it) read the ECU.
Stop guessing what maybe wrong...
Do you already have your own codereader yet..?

No.. I'm reader-less. I was going to get one of those multi-cable sets and download the Fiat ECU scan software to solve the engine light later on when things calmed down a bit .. but it looks like it might need to be done sooner, now that the mpg has simultaneously gone AWOL.

I might get one of those readers and see what it does. Meanwhile I have an old MAF that I'll plug in there to see if that changes anything. I have no idea if it's any good or not.. but it might give me some more of a clue while the code doodah arrives.

Ralf S.