Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

General tyres

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General tyres

I put the question of Tubes in tubeless tyres to Andrea at Passione 500.....

He sad there were no problems reported in Italy and Insurance companies accept this...
However he also said that they do not accept a 126 engine in a std 500.... and will not pay out.
 
Time to put this Tubes in tubeless tyres to bed.....
I have an old school mate who works at Pirelli...
I had a conversation ages ago with him abut this situation...hence my agreement that you can fit tubes in tubeless tyres..
I emailed him a few days go.... and he sent me the following that Pirelli released ages ago:


Now if that s not a statement from a manufacturer what is!

If anyone wants a PDF copy of the letter pm me with your email address.... not all at once as my inbox will fill up...
 
Phew!

Thank you Bigvtwin996.

I have been waiting for a similar letter from Pirelli, but that covers it nicely, which of course is a big releif to people wanting to drive their car while still being covered by their insurance.
 
Apologies and regardless of what Pirelli say, my underwriter has said no and that letter from Pirelli is as vague as Bojo’s requirements for Covid 19........dress it up all you want gents but I’m sorry it doesn’t cut it......

But that’s just my opinion.

BVT ask your friend at Pirelli if they will underwrite everyone’s insurance should an accident occur and said individuals insurance not pay out due to having tubes in tubeless tyres......now that would be a PDF worth holding on file....

Again just my opinion....
 
Dougal Cawley said:
Phew!

Thank you Bigvtwin996.

I have been waiting for a similar letter from Pirelli, but that covers it nicely, which of course is a big releif to people wanting to drive their car while still being covered by their insurance.
Click to expand...

And why does someone else have to justify what you should be able to just provide, it’s your trade, life and by all accounts of this thread your highly regarded profile in the classic car community.......

I just don’t understand but am happy to be educated....
 
On a completely different, but related and far lighter note... I was curious how many of you guys mount your own tubes and tires? I was debating picking up some spoons and figured if it was easy enough, the ~$20 for spoons would be well worth it over hunting for a shop locally and hoping they don't futz it up.
 
The Whitakers said:
Apologies and regardless of what Pirelli say, my underwriter has said no and that letter from Pirelli is as vague as Bojo’s requirements for Covid 19........dress it up all you want gents but I’m sorry it doesn’t cut it......

But that’s just my opinion.

BVT ask your friend at Pirelli if they will underwrite everyone’s insurance should an accident occur and said individuals insurance not pay out due to having tubes in tubeless tyres......now that would be a PDF worth holding on file....

Again just my opinion....
Click to expand...

I don't mind... I can take a while to get info...
but tell me exactly what you would like to be clearer....
i asked the question originally regarding my Lotus Friends... and they seem pretty happy... and Lotuses do well over 100mph....

However .. also have a friend by the name of Mark Smith... you may like to look up his association with Sauber....
He is on a retainer by a major insurance company (as apparently are other similarly qualified people with other companies...)
If they have a clam they do not wish to pay.. they simply roll in someone like him... The Judge asks him to introduce himself and why he is deemed to be suitably qualified as an expert....he reels off his qualifications and experience and simply says "In my expert opinion changing xyz is a deviation from the original design and could have caused the accident"
It does not matter f you have informed your insurance company or even of they accepted the change.. what comes is...
So Mr whoever you are, you made these modifications so presumably you are suitably qualified to understand the effect of such changes on the vehicle design..." So in what way are you qualified and experienced in Car Design".....

Case closed!

Telling your insurance company you have even fitted alloy wheels and larger tyres and they have accepted it, the onus will be on you to prove that it did not change the vehicle handling or such,

Just depends on the case and the potential pay out!

You should have a copy of the letter and send it as "is to" your insurance" and ask for their comments..
What do people do who have lowered their cars or fitted coil over at the back or even the wishbone front end?
that is one reason I stay as std as possible....
you should even inform them of 123 dizzys etc.. "Any Modifications" is the term used..
 
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The Whitakers said:
Apologies and regardless of what Pirelli say, my underwriter has said no and that letter from Pirelli is as vague as Bojo’s requirements for Covid 19........dress it up all you want gents but I’m sorry it doesn’t cut it......
Click to expand...

It's a "funny" situation and showing kind of the reverse attitude from the one that the Forum in general has previously shown towards safety and legality.

For instance, it is perfectly legal and safe and covered by all insurers to drive in our cars without an MOT; but look how much strength of feeling has been shown by subscribers who argue the opposite.

Here we are, bending over backwards to persuade someone to ignore the written terms of his insurer, personally addressed to him and instead, to rely on some strongly expressed contrary opinions and a three year old PDF of a generic letter from a source unknown to him.

Strange.
 
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Bigvtwin996 said:
Telling your insurance company you have even fitted alloy wheels and larger tyres and mightthey have accepted it, the onus will be on you to prove that it did not change the vehicle handling or such,
Click to expand...

....as it would be in the case with these tyre marked "Radial Tubeless Type". I think that I've already established that for most 500's, even radials are not what the car was designed around; so technically, if an insurance company adopted such strict terms, they might invalidate a claim in any case (they wouldn't actually).

I see the argument not being about whether or not the practise of fitting tubes is safe...it has to be...it's the only way. It's about whether or not you should ignore specific terms issued by your insurer.
 
fiat500 said:
....as it would be in the case with these tyre marked "Radial Tubeless Type". I think that I've already established that for most 500's, even radials are not what the car was designed around; so technically, if an insurance company adopted such strict terms, they might invalidate a claim in any case (they wouldn't actually).

I see the argument not being about whether or not the practise of fitting tubes is safe...it has to be...it's the only way. It's about whether or not you should ignore specific terms issued by your insurer.
Click to expand...


Of course that is correct technically an insurance company could literally not pay out on almost any claim "pattern Brake shoes would be an easy one"...... it does just depend...

I had a huge argument when a garage fitted some unknown make bearings to my Motor home when I had asked for SKF, they claimed they were manufacturer equivalent, I argued that they were not what I asked for and not approved by the manufacturer..... I provided a letter from Hymer as did not want some unknown quality non OEM that could fail driving 3500kg at 60mph and the insurer saying bearings were not OEM....

but would an Underwriter really understand.. they are number crunchers that base they conclusions on mathematical models and probability....
But if I were told that I could not fit tubes in tubeless tyres then I would send them a letter from the manufacturer and ask for comment...
Who knows more an Insurer or the company that actually design tyres.
If we were to be told we had to fit Cross ply tyres would the Historical Vehicle society or such not argue that they are more dangerous....
I am sure that such things have been covered by other car marques...
 
We have crossply tyres for the Topolino https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/fiat/topolino.html none of them i would get excited about. However there is talk in Pirelli of making the original Pirelli Stella Bianca for the Topolino, but no plans for a 12" one.

Funnily when looking through my fitment guides, i don't have a listing in what we would call a standard generic crossply tyres size description. So in my mind it should be a 4.40-12 crossply. However in my early books the list it as a 125-12 without specifying that it is crossply or Radial. However in theory a radial should be called a 125R12 or 125SR12 as the R designates it as a radial. However it isn't the first time i have come accross crossply tyres where their dimensions are described in millimetres instead of inches when it is for a very European car.

Does anyone have pictures of original crossply tyres? It would be nice to see how the tread pattern looks and how the tyre size is described.

I'm not suggesting we get one made, it would be nice to see one.

Incidentally BFGoodrich make a 450-12 White Wall, which is the closest i know of, but at 150 smakkers + Vodka And Tonic it would be difficult to justify attempting to sell you a wrong size tyre that won't work as well.
 
Dougal Cawley said:
Is anyone actually fitting cross ply tyres on a 500?

If so could they post some pictures.
Click to expand...

I'm not fitting them; but here's some scrappy images of tyres on the front of my car which remained when I restored it. they were probably fitted in the '70s. They are really narrow and as you can see, a little bit past their best. Probably could have re-used them now with no MOT to worry about. ;)

Are you thinking of having these re-made?.....the true, original Fiat 500 tyre. ;)
 

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I don’t think they are worth re making are they?

Surely everyone wants radials. The Pirelli and the Michelin X both offer a proper period carcass. So that is a radial tyre built to go on a car that was designed around cross ply. So nice thin foot print with rounded shoulders, tall and suited to a relatively thin rim. So in that proper tyres are still available I think if we made a cross ply very few people would buy it?

Incidentally we do now have a few white walls https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/125-12/125sr12-cinturato-cn54-whitewall.html
 
Having done close to 400 km (in one day!) in a 500D in the 'Marche' and 'Umbria, some of it in the wet, the last thing that I would want on my car would be a set of 'cross-plies'. The Italian Autostradas might be lovely and smooth, but the back roads, no way!
 
Many classic car owners that show cars have two sets of wheels and tyres.. driving and show ones....
 
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