Tuning Tuning a 1.2l fiat 500, "ghetto style".

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

****!!!
Im doomed!
Doomed i tell you
*cries

 

[jrkitching]

Do you believe my understanding of the situation to be incorrect??

In a word, yes.

Andy's link is as good a summary as any, but a few minutes spent searching the internet for "what modifications affect my car insurance" might be informative.

and as long as it passes an mot it is legally ok.

This also is incorrect.

An MOT is not a complete check that the car is fully compliant with all aspects of the construction and use regulations.

A car can pass an MOT, and still not be legal to drive on the road.

Noise is one example of this; legally the car must meet a specific dB limit (which depends on the year of manufacture) for use on the road, but for MOT purposes, it's down to the MOT tester's subjective judgement.

The police do sometimes do spot checks on cars which look or sound obviously modified, and they have specialist offices and equipment to use in these situations. They can use this equipment to check if your car meets a specific dB limit, and if it exceeds that, then you are committing an offence and they will have all the evidence they need to deal with this as they see fit.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

In a word, yes.

Andy's link is as good a summary as any, but a few minutes spent searching the internet for "what modifications affect my car insurance" might be informative.

This also is incorrect.

An MOT is not a complete check that the car is fully compliant with all aspects of the construction and use regulations.

A car can pass an MOT, and still not be legal to drive on the road.

Noise is one example of this; legally the car must meet a specific dB limit (which depends on the year of manufacture) for use on the road, but for MOT purposes, it's down to the MOT tester's subjective judgement.

The police do sometimes do spot checks on cars which look or sound obviously modified, and they have specialist offices and equipment to use in these situations. They can use this equipment to check if your car meets a specific dB limit, and if it exceeds that, then you are committing an offence and they will have all the evidence they need to deal with this as they see fit.

. Oh i see.. im going to have to go through this again with the insurance.
Mot guy told me its the nicest sounding fiat 500 he has heard. Not too loud though. Hopefully the insurance will be cool with it all.

 

[jrkitching]

If you've modified your car and want to be sure it's properly insured, I suggest giving these guys a call; they'll know which companies have an affordable product that best meets your needs.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

If you've modified your car and want to be sure it's properly insured, I suggest giving these guys a call; they'll know which companies have an affordable product that best meets your needs.

Thanks bro! I will try them out if my insurance has a problem with my modifications..

Hopefully i speak to the same guy cus he was so chill about it..

One thing is for sure, im not putting it back to normal! It was annoying me a lot by being too silent.

 

[porta]

Basically, the way i was looking at it was like this, they say i cant modify the "engine"
To me, that is, anything from the throttle plate to the cat exit is classed as part of the engine..
The exhaust, and intake/air filter are attached to these parts, however, they are clearly not part of the engine.

For example, you could run the car with no air filter at all, and although foolish, it would be both faster, and still perfectly legal. Because it is an ancillary part, not an actual part of the engine.

This has always been my understanding of the situation and i have never had a problem with any of the cars i have Modified..
and as long as it passes an mot it is legally ok.

Do you believe my understanding of the situation to be incorrect??

You need to have a word with your insurer, some companies are very keen, to the extent that they bump up prices for little changes such as multiple colours/wraps to spoilers and changing headlights…some don’t care, or charge nothing/less so long as the mods compliment them selves, such as boosting engine power AND stopping power.
They didn’t care back in the day wehn I put twin twinchokes on my 128 coupe in ‘86 but they did care wehn I upped the power, by an estimated 10bhp, on my 16v Punto Sporting, year 2000. That said, it was only £45 extra and that included the £12 admin fee!
This is all history though, and things may have changed, I haven’t really boosted anything for 20yr!

 

[porta]

If you've modified your car and want to be sure it's properly insured, I suggest giving these guys a call; they'll know which companies have an affordable product that best meets your needs.

I don’t like Flux ever since they paid out against me wehn a taxi tried squeezing past me, they even paid out personal injury and he can’t have been doing more than a crawl

 

[There all puntos]

Stilo'ish 14.00cc 16v engine should slot in (with some inner wing front Xmember mods) stick on some bigger injectors I. e. Some 1.6 fiat ones) a straight 4i thru exhaust, get a cat bypass engine manifold.

And instant 115bhp at the front wheels. Worked for my Stilo. Plenty of Stilos in car breakers still.

I would consider that easier, only have to remove your engine (and gearbox) and get the CPU set up with your gauges.

 

[Cornish Ian]

Thanks bro! I will try them out if my insurance has a problem with my modifications..

Hopefully i speak to the same guy cus he was so chill about it..

One thing is for sure, im not putting it back to normal! It was annoying me a lot by being too silent.

You need to tell your insurance company EVERYTHING (ideally in writing )otherwise you run the risk of them taking your money and if the worse happens they could easily refuse to payout. When they find something modified that you didn’t mention thats their excuse for not paying out. No wonder your insurance guy was so chilled.

 

[jrkitching]

Ok. let's get this back to topic & think about what you actually could do to a 500 to make it seem more 'sporty'.

Now I'm most definitely not recommending this, but the gearing of the 500 is quite long legged, in the interests of both economy and driveability. Putting in a gearbox from a 1.1 Panda would lower the gearing in all gears (the geartrain is the same but the final drive ratio is different); it'd likely drive more like the Fiat's of the 1980's, but you'd also take a small economy hit.

That's not something I'd want personally, but I'd be interested to know what it would drive like.

I remember test driving a Lancia Delta HF back in the 1980's, and seriously considered buying one. It felt very lively on first impression, but when I thought about high it'd be revving when cruising on the motorway, my saner head prevailed. My colleague sitting opposite did buy one, and got bored with it after a few months. Not long after that, it was obviously starting to rust away, and it was disposed of.

1.1 Panda 'boxes are cheap, and I'll bet it would just bolt straight on (you'd still need to tell your insurance company though). I doubt there's any difference in mechanical strength between the two.

This is, admittedly, a crazy idea; but probably no more crazy than some of the other ideas in this thread! I don't think it'd make any difference to the top speed, but it might shave a fraction of a second off the 0-60 time.

 

[steveras57]

Dont forget that this year car insurance even for "normal" and unmodified cars has on average been ramped up by ALL insurance companys by between 35% to 45% so if you payed £400 last year then its gonna be nearer £600 this year ( something immoral about this as its both a legal requirement and a monopoly industry! so you basically take it or leave it!) and i predict its going to get worse as-
A) the government continues to try to price us ordinary folk off the road and restrict our freedoms and movements further!.(cashless society anyone!??)
B) due to the rises more and more people whom would never have considered it in the past decide to risk not having insurance due to the legalised extortion now in evidence!. which makes it a never-ending spiral as they put it up further to cover the "costs"

 

[varesecrazy]

Ok. let's get this back to topic & think about what you actually could do to a 500 to make it seem more 'sporty'.

Now I'm most definitely not recommending this, but the gearing of the 500 is quite long legged, in the interests of both economy and driveability. Putting in a gearbox from a 1.1 Panda would lower the gearing in all gears (the geartrain is the same but the final drive ratio is different); it'd likely drive more like the Fiat's of the 1980's, but you'd also take a small economy hit.

That's not something I'd want personally, but I'd be interested to know what it would drive like.

I remember test driving a Lancia Delta HF back in the 1980's, and seriously considered buying one. It felt very lively on first impression, but when I thought about high it'd be revving when cruising

This is, admittedly, a crazy idea; but probably no more crazy than some of the other ideas in this thread! I don't think it'd make any difference to the top speed, but it might shave a fraction of a second off the 0-60 time.

Intriguing prospect,

It could put the "Lag" of the 69bhp down to much more useable speeds,


Back in my quicker days (a while back..)
vehicles often went faster in 4 th than 5th also

 

[porta]

Ok. let's get this back to topic & think about what you actually could do to a 500 to make it seem more 'sporty'.

Now I'm most definitely not recommending this, but the gearing of the 500 is quite long legged, in the interests of both economy and driveability. Putting in a gearbox from a 1.1 Panda would lower the gearing in all gears (the geartrain is the same but the final drive ratio is different); it'd likely drive more like the Fiat's of the 1980's, but you'd also take a small economy hit.

That's not something I'd want personally, but I'd be interested to know what it would drive like.

I remember test driving a Lancia Delta HF back in the 1980's, and seriously considered buying one. It felt very lively on first impression, but when I thought about high it'd be revving when cruising on the motorway, my saner head prevailed. My colleague sitting opposite did buy one, and got bored with it after a few months. Not long after that, it was obviously starting to rust away, and it was disposed of.

1.1 Panda 'boxes are cheap, and I'll bet it would just bolt straight on (you'd still need to tell your insurance company though). I doubt there's any difference in mechanical strength between the two.

This is, admittedly, a crazy idea; but probably no more crazy than some of the other ideas in this thread! I don't think it'd make any difference to the top speed, but it might shave a fraction of a second off the 0-60 time.

That’s not as crazy as it sounds, sticking in a different gearbox! As for the Delta HF, yes it was a car you had to concentrate very hard driving one, a bit more hooligan that the Strada 130, strangely as the delta suspension was more sporting. Used to rust all along back of roof, that was the indicator that there was more lurking elsewhere

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Ok. let's get this back to topic & think about what you actually could do to a 500 to make it seem more 'sporty'.

Now I'm most definitely not recommending this, but the gearing of the 500 is quite long legged, in the interests of both economy and driveability. Putting in a gearbox from a 1.1 Panda would lower the gearing in all gears (the geartrain is the same but the final drive ratio is different); it'd likely drive more like the Fiat's of the 1980's, but you'd also take a small economy hit.

That's not something I'd want personally, but I'd be interested to know what it would drive like.

I remember test driving a Lancia Delta HF back in the 1980's, and seriously considered buying one. It felt very lively on first impression, but when I thought about high it'd be revving when cruising on the motorway, my saner head prevailed. My colleague sitting opposite did buy one, and got bored with it after a few months. Not long after that, it was obviously starting to rust away, and it was disposed of.

1.1 Panda 'boxes are cheap, and I'll bet it would just bolt straight on (you'd still need to tell your insurance company though). I doubt there's any difference in mechanical strength between the two.

This is, admittedly, a crazy idea; but probably no more crazy than some of the other ideas in this thread! I don't think it'd make any difference to the top speed, but it might shave a fraction of a second off the 0-60 time.

I hand thought about closer gear ratios. But seen as though mine is getting noisy i guess i should weigh it up as an option.. im already at 3k rpm at 70mph though, and im on the motorway a lot. I guess it would be revving too high if i change it and im worried the engine wouldn't appreciate revving up much more for a long time.. i wonder if it would hurt it over time..

 

[porta]

I hand thought about closer gear ratios. But seen as though mine is getting noisy i guess i should weigh it up as an option.. im already at 3k rpm at 70mph though, and im on the motorway a lot. I guess it would be revving too high if i change it and im worried the engine wouldn't appreciate revving up much more for a long time.. i wonder if it would hurt it over time..

Fiats of old used to love being driven at the limit of revs, obviously not all the time. Those that do race them, legally on tracks, don’t spend all day on motorways. However, you’re not talking a huge change in ratios and I dare say some of the 1.1’s are often driven ‘spiritedly’.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Fiats of old used to love being driven at the limit of revs, obviously not all the time. Those that do race them, legally on tracks, don’t spend all day on motorways. However, you’re not talking a huge change in ratios and I dare say some of the 1.1’s are often driven ‘spiritedly’.

More thoughts must be thunk about this.
If its below 4krpm @70 then i would consider it.. i guess i gotta figure out how much quicker it would be..
Is there a 6 speed box available to fit these cars? (500,1.2 69hp)

 

[Greasytrucker]

More thoughts must be thunk about this.
If its below 4krpm @70 then i would consider it.. i guess i gotta figure out how much quicker it would be..
Is there a 6 speed box available to fit these cars? (500,1.2 69hp)

it’s your final drive that’s going to give you the quicker 0-60 though, all you’d be gaining is closer ratios

 

[jrkitching]

Is there a 6 speed box available to fit these cars?

The 1.4 500 uses a 6 speed box, since the 16V engine has a narrower power band and the whole car is set up more toward the performance end of the spectrum. The box is physically wider so the steering had to be modified and the turning circle is substantially greater. So in addition to the box, you'd need to change the driveshafts and probably a fair bit of the front steering and suspension. Plus the ratios that work for the 100HP 16 valve engine would likely not work too well in an 8V 1.2.

So it's probably possible, almost certainly not straightforward, and the end result might not be what you're looking for.

With the 1.1 box, you'd see an improvement, albeit a small one, in acceleration in the intermediate gears. RPM in top would be the same as the 1.1 Panda, so higher, but not ridiculously so.

If your priority is the most comfortable motorway cruising experience, the standard box gives you that already; you won't improve on it.

Actually a 1.4 500 would get you most of what you're looking for; perhaps you should have bought one of those instead? Another 31HP straight out of the box is realistically way more than you're ever going to get out of a 1.2 8V and gives the car a totally different feel, more akin to the Panda 100HP, but with marginally better ride quality.

One of the great things about the 500 is that there's an engine for just about every imaginable driving style. The problem you have is that the 1.2 8V is just about as mismatched to your own driving style as it's possible to be.

 

[jrkitching]

it’s your final drive that’s going to give you the quicker 0-60 though, all you’d be gaining is closer ratios

Exactly.

On the standard 1.2 box, 5th is more like an overdrive.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

The 1.4 500 uses a 6 speed box, since the 16V engine has a narrower power band and the whole car is set up more toward the performance end of the spectrum. The box is physically wider so the steering had to be modified and the turning circle is substantially greater. So in addition to the box, you'd need to change the driveshafts and probably a fair bit of the front steering and suspension. Plus the ratios that work for the 100HP 16 valve engine would likely not work too well in an 8V 1.2.

So it's probably possible, almost certainly not straightforward, and the end result might not be what you're looking for.

With the 1.1 box, you'd see an improvement, albeit a small one, in acceleration in the intermediate gears. RPM in top would be the same as the 1.1 Panda, so higher, but not ridiculously so.

If your priority is the most comfortable motorway cruising experience, the standard box gives you that already; you won't improve on it.

Actually a 1.4 500 would get you most of what you're looking for; perhaps you should have bought one of those instead? Another 31HP straight out of the box is realistically way more than you're ever going to get out of a 1.2 8V and gives the car a totally different feel, more akin to the Panda 100HP, but with marginally better ride quality.

One of the great things about the 500 is that there's an engine for just about every imaginable driving style. The problem you have is that the 1.2 8V is just about as mismatched to your own driving style as it's possible to be.

I have been avoiding trading it in because i have spent a lot of money on it, putting a new clutch, suspension, swingarms, the intake and the exhaust.. all in all it owes me over £2k but they are never gonna give me that much for it in a trade.

I guess i should just go and ask the fiat 500 dealer in the next town..
He might have a swap for me..

I've grown quite attached to the old girl though