Tuning Tuning a 1.2l fiat 500, "ghetto style".

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Hello
I have been tuning my fiat 500, because it was annoying me.. it was too silent so i made it louder!
and it was too slow so i am in the process of tuning it up a bit..

This thread is designed to show you what i have done, and what i will do next.

This will be a journey to greatness, done on a poverty level budget. I will document it here, and provide photos and links to videos.

It begins at 69 hp, Im aiming for 100 hp minimum. And i will get there by hook or by crook!

The path is as yet undecided.
Im open to advice on how to proceed,

but i have tuned quite a few cars and they always go faster and sound nicer,
so although im not perfect, im no fool either when it comes to this..

im just poor and i want to go fast for cheap and easy

I will post what i have done on this thread.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

These are some pics of the ghetto intake

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

This is a link to a video of my exhaust setup on tiktok -

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

This is a link to a video explaining my intake setup.

 

[FiatMatt94]

What you could do is do what I'm considering doing to my Panda, fit a bigger throttle body & inlet manifold of a 1400 8v Punto, they'll be some gains & keeps it looking standard

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

What you could do is do what I'm considering doing to my Panda, fit a bigger throttle body & inlet manifold of a 1400 8v Punto, they'll be some gains & keeps it looking standard

Will it fit right on?
Because if it will im doing it! that sounds like an epic plan!!

 

[FiatMatt94]

Will it fit right on?
Because if it will im doing it! that sounds like an epic plan!!

I've never done it myself but am really considering it with my car as it's a later Euro 6 car with pretty much no bottom end grunt so anything will be an improvement, I have heard before that they just bolt straight on (not 100% sure how true it is though, I'm thinking the only way to find out is to just try it using the trial & error method) its just the internal diameter of the throttle body is a few mm bigger, on both 1.2 & 1.4 8v the air box & all that is all the same & visually they look identical whereas the 16v has a completely different setup so I'm thinking on the theory as long as it's off a 1400 8v it should in theory be plug & play, I suppose it's similar to the old cars where you stuck bigger carburetors on them, the only thing would be if the car throws up a fault if it detects something's been changed

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

I've never done it myself but am really considering it with my car as it's a later Euro 6 car with pretty much no bottom end grunt so anything will be an improvement, I have heard before that they just bolt straight on (not 100% sure how true it is though, I'm thinking the only way to find out is to just try it using the trial & error method) its just the internal diameter of the throttle body is a few mm bigger, on both 1.2 & 1.4 8v the air box & all that is all the same & visually they look identical whereas the 16v has a completely different setup so I'm thinking on the theory as long as it's off a 1400 8v it should in theory be plug & play, I suppose it's similar to the old cars where you stuck bigger carburetors on them, the only thing would be if the car throws up a fault if it detects something's been change

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

I've never done it myself but am really considering it with my car as it's a later Euro 6 car with pretty much no bottom end grunt so anything will be an improvement, I have heard before that they just bolt straight on (not 100% sure how true it is though, I'm thinking the only way to find out is to just try it using the trial & error method) its just the internal diameter of the throttle body is a few mm bigger, on both 1.2 & 1.4 8v the air box & all that is all the same & visually they look identical whereas the 16v has a completely different setup so I'm thinking on the theory as long as it's off a 1400 8v it should in theory be plug & play, I suppose it's similar to the old cars where you stuck bigger carburetors on them, the only thing would be if the car throws up a fault if it detects something's been changed

I will look into it

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

I've never done it myself but am really considering it with my car as it's a later Euro 6 car with pretty much no bottom end grunt so anything will be an improvement, I have heard before that they just bolt straight on (not 100% sure how true it is though, I'm thinking the only way to find out is to just try it using the trial & error method) its just the internal diameter of the throttle body is a few mm bigger, on both 1.2 & 1.4 8v the air box & all that is all the same & visually they look identical whereas the 16v has a completely different setup so I'm thinking on the theory as long as it's off a 1400 8v it should in theory be plug & play, I suppose it's similar to the old cars where you stuck bigger carburetors on them, the only thing would be if the car throws up a fault if it detects something's been changed

Ahh so im gonna need the throttle body too i guess.. this looks promising bro

 

[AndyRKett]

So I am assuming both the inlet and exhaust manifold are standard, both of which are cast metal and both very restrictive?

You’re onto a looser looking to get 100hp out of the 69hp 8V

Note the panda 100hp (the same engine was used in the 500) it has both a bigger displacement and 16valves I have seen one 86hp 1.2 tuned to over 100hp but that had both intake and exhaust uprated throttle body uprated, was remapped and had aftermarket camshafts fitted.

If you want to get anywhere near that level of power I’d suggest you need two more valves per cylinder or to go forced induction which means aftermarket ECU or a whole engine and ECU change.

As is usually the advice with these engines, unless you are willing to spend silly amounts, use it, enjoy it and if you want something more powerful buy another car.

If it is a project of passion or a particular desire to see what you can do then you’re going to need to get your hands dirty and be prepared for some serious hands on work pulling the engine apart and getting things machined.

I have a 1.2 16valve with 86hp and I have been looking at every avenue to see if 100hp is attainable, and while it is for the 16valve, new cams alone run to £400 and that’s without remapping a full exhaust from the manifold back, polishing, porting and potentially having the rotating assembly balanced to increase the Rev limit

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

So I am assuming both the inlet and exhaust manifold are standard, both of which are cast metal and both very restrictive?

You’re onto a looser looking to get 100hp out of the 69hp 8V

Note the panda 100hp (the same engine was used in the 500) it has both a bigger displacement and 16valves I have seen one 86hp 1.2 tuned to over 100hp but that had both intake and exhaust uprated throttle body uprated, was remapped and had aftermarket camshafts fitted.

If you want to get anywhere near that level of power I’d suggest you need two more valves per cylinder or to go forced induction which means aftermarket ECU or a whole engine and ECU change.

As is usually the advice with these engines, unless you are willing to spend silly amounts, use it, enjoy it and if you want something more powerful buy another car.

If it is a project of passion or a particular desire to see what you can do then you’re going to need to get your hands dirty and be prepared for some serious hands on work pulling the engine apart and getting things machined.

I have a 1.2 16valve with 86hp and I have been looking at every avenue to see if 100hp is attainable, and while it is for the 16valve, new cams alone run to £400 and that’s without remapping a full exhaust from the manifold back, polishing, porting and potentially having the rotating assembly balanced to increase the Rev limit

I have plans to do some mad things with this old girl, it is more of that project of passion thing, than a value per horsepower thing,

but i aim to use more brains and less cash.
I got evil plans for a vacuum controlled, home made, 2 Stage intake, and some plans of a pressure controlled cat bypass pipe.
Im going crazy on this poor little thing. But it will go like a bastard when im done wether it likes it or not!!

 

[AndyRKett]

but i aim to use more brains and less cash.
I got evil plans for a vacuum controlled, home made, 2 Stage intake, and some plans of a pressure controlled cat bypass pipe.
Im going crazy on this poor little thing. But it will go like a bastard when im done wether it likes it or not!!

well I will look forward to your endeavours

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

So I am assuming both the inlet and exhaust manifold are standard, both of which are cast metal and both very restrictive?

You’re onto a looser looking to get 100hp out of the 69hp 8V

Note the panda 100hp (the same engine was used in the 500) it has both a bigger displacement and 16valves I have seen one 86hp 1.2 tuned to over 100hp but that had both intake and exhaust uprated throttle body uprated, was remapped and had aftermarket camshafts fitted.

If you want to get anywhere near that level of power I’d suggest you need two more valves per cylinder or to go forced induction which means aftermarket ECU or a whole engine and ECU change.

As is usually the advice with these engines, unless you are willing to spend silly amounts, use it, enjoy it and if you want something more powerful buy another car.

If it is a project of passion or a particular desire to see what you can do then you’re going to need to get your hands dirty and be prepared for some serious hands on work pulling the engine apart and getting things machined.

I have a 1.2 16valve with 86hp and I have been looking at every avenue to see if 100hp is attainable, and while it is for the 16valve, new cams alone run to £400 and that’s without remapping a full exhaust from the manifold back, polishing, porting and potentially having the rotating assembly balanced to increase the Rev limit

I have plans to do some mad things with this old girl, it is more of that project of passion thing, than a value per horsepower thing,

but i aim to use more brains and less cash.
I got evil plans for a vacuum controlled, home made, 2 Stage intake, and some plans of a pressure controlled cat bypass pipe.
Im going crazy on this poor little thing. But it will go like a bastard when im done wether it likes it or not!!

well I will look forward to your endeavours

They will be mad but i think they will work ok

 

[jrkitching]

It begins at 69 hp, Im aiming for 100 hp minimum

Read Andy's post #11; there's a lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience in those paragraphs.

If you have a 69HP 1.2 8V, there is basically only one way to increase the power that will get you any meaningful gain, or make any kind of economic sense.

The good news is that you can get as much power as you want from a 500, in increments, all the way up to 165HP and beyond. The bad news is that you will have to trade in your existing car.

If you want 85HP, trade it in for a TA85.

If you want 100HP, trade it in for a 1.4 500

If you want 105HP, trade it in for a TA105

If you want 135HP, trade it in for a base model Abarth.

After that, there are a number of options for increasing the power of the turbocharged 1.4 engine, though none are particularly cheap.

There is no known way of cheaply gaining a meaningful increase in power from a base 1.2 engine; the core engine design is simply not a good starting point if you want something to tune for power. There are some here who would say that Fiat already went too far by putting VVT onto this engine, and that it was better in its 60HP form, though the 60HP 1.2 engine was never used in the 500 .

All you will achieve by carrying out the modifications you are suggesting is to turn money into noise.

 

[jrkitching]

I suppose it's similar to the old cars where you stuck bigger carburetors on them

Unfortunately for anyone wanting to tune the intake, it's nothing like an older car at all.

Unless you are running at full throttle, modifying the intake system will make absolutely no difference to the engine's power. The airflow is constrained by the butterfly valve, and the computerised engine management system injects precisely the correct amount of fuel for optimum combustion. If the intake is more freely flowing, it just means the butterfly valve won't need to open as much. Only when the butterfly valve is fully open is there going to be any gain in absolute power, and that will in any case be minimal, since the biggest obstruction to airflow through this engine is the exhaust manifold, particularly the built-in CAT.

Except when you've got your foot to the floor, you'll see no difference at all.

 

[AndyRKett]

I just think if it were as easy as bypassing the cat then you would just stick a straight pipe in and not bother with complex vacuum set ups, also if you could just slap a set of secondarys on the intake then again fiat would probably have done that at some point in the life of the 1.2 engine. even if you could get loads more air in, and out again. you are still always going to be limited by the flow through the much smaller cross section of the 8valve engine, the lower compression ratio of the 8v engine and the small displacement.

The injectors can only deliver so much fuel. The ECU is not tuned for performance it is tuned for longevity and economy.
Unless you're willing to open your wallet and let a machine shop take a couple of fists full of cash out, you'll never get a 69hp engine up to 100hp. or if you did the engine would not last long at all, and would probably not be balanced enough to cope with the RPM needed to sustain that output.

Fiat are and always have been pretty good at wringing as much power out of their engines as is practical, which is what there is not much scope to tune them further in the after market.

 

[jrkitching]

Fiat are and always have been pretty good at wringing as much power out of their engines as is practical

And in the case of the 1.2, producing an engine with good fuel economy, reliability, longevity and a nice wide power band. These are the things that the majority of drivers prioritise. For those whose priorities lie elsewhere, Fiat have other engine options.

I'll reserve judgement on the economy and longevity of the TA, but I'd agree it's a clever piece of engine design.

 

[AndyRKett]

And in the case of the 1.2, producing an engine with good fuel economy, reliability, longevity and a nice wide power band.

I'll reserve judgement on the economy and longevity of the TA.

As I have said, I have been looking at a lot of options for my little 1.2 in my Punto which is the 16V 85hp engine you can uprate the whole intake system and the exhaust. port and polish, new cams and remap the ECU, even after all that which would easily run into 4 figures, you would still only get just a little over 100hp as this is what other people have done. Its been proven, tried and tested.

The 8valve head here is going to be the main limiting factor. you could add a turbo but has been proven on this forum over the last 20 years a stock 1.2 engine tends to die extremely quickly once you add a turbo. They are just not reliable.

One member on here "Brin" managed 150ish HP out of a 1.2 8V Punto a few years back (maybe 10 or more now) by fitting a turbo, but the engine just destroyed itself repeatedly and he spent a fortune on that. one other Turbo punto I know of, that was discussed recently burnt to the ground when it caught fire.

Even at 150hp that is still not as much as a stock Grande Punto Abarth, and you could get 595 Abarth and tweek the boost for instant gains.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Read Andy's post #11; there's a lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience in those paragraphs.

If you have a 69HP 1.2 8V, there is basically only one way to increase the power that will get you any meaningful gain, or make any kind of economic sense.

The good news is that you can get as much power as you want from a 500, in increments, all the way up to 165HP and beyond. The bad news is that you will have to trade in your existing car.

If you want 85HP, trade it in for a TA85.

If you want 100HP, trade it in for a 1.4 500

If you want 105HP, trade it in for a TA105

If you want 135HP, trade it in for a base model Abarth.

After that, there are a number of options for increasing the power of the turbocharged 1.4 engine, though none are particularly cheap.

There is no known way of cheaply gaining a meaningful increase in power from a base 1.2 engine; the core engine design is simply not a good starting point if you want something to tune for power. There are some here who would say that Fiat already went too far by putting VVT onto this engine, and that it was better in its 60HP form, though the 60HP 1.2 engine was never used in the 500 .

All you will achieve by carrying out the modifications you are suggesting is to turn money into noise.

Well, thats all quiet depressing.

See, this car has cheaper insurance, thats why i didn't want to trade it in for a faster car.
It already goes a little bit faster than it did.
Sounds like im just gonna have to do some cylinder head work, or invent some mad things for it..

Remember, An amr 500 supercharger is only like, £120..