Technical Rusted Punto . . .

[FiatPuntoMad]

The exterior of the car is in mint condition (apart from a dent from an impatient woman who decided to crash into me instead of waiting).

Anyway, my car just failed its MOT. Fiat punto ELX, 2001 X reg, 1.2 8v, 75k.

Failed on 4 counts of rusting. Seat belt points (i knew it would fail here) but my brother decided to jack the car up, ignoring the marked points, completely destroying the rear of both sills so kind of him.

Took it to a respectable garage, quoted me £250 for new discs, pads, handbrake cable, and all the rusting to be sorted over a weeks work. He said my car is worth the work as the floors and wheel arches are in really good condition. After the garage who did the MOT wanted £450 for the job i went ahead with with this quote and should have her back by next week. Although i will now have to pay for another MOT.

I had the timing belt and water pump done at 65k. Only the water pump has never been right. For example if you stop at traffic lights, and pull away the temperature drops for a while and gradually builds back up again. Also has a slight squeak to it (only occasionally, mainly when engine is cold).

Im wondering if i should be looking into another new water pump ? with the miles building up, and no HG failure as of yet, i want it to last as long as possible. One garage who did work on the car told me mine should last longer as the engine block is from a 16v engine (no idea why, or if this makes it any better).

 

[Ziggy122]

the temperature dropping after sitting at the lights is because when your driving along
The thermostat opens up to keep engine cool
Sit at the lights and its not closing/opening to keep engine warm, so its sat there cooling away

You pull away increasing the airflow and since the stat still hasn't corrected itself, its now cooling again

Till a big change and it adjusts and warms back up

Sounds Classic of a thermostat gone lazy, i've had 4now which have done JUST that....

im fitting a Fiat Stat next - touch wood it'll be done and dusted and wont need doing again

£250 for Welding and Brake works is average, but area and quality of work dependant
£10 x 2 for discs
£10 x 1 For Pad set
Handbrake cables £25 x 1 (total so far £55)
Plus 1 Hour labour todo the brakes and handbrake cables @ £20 (garage dependant)

That leaves 175 for 4x welding fixes, depending how bad they really are

ziggy

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

Yeah when we did the water pump etc we also did the stat! Now when we changed the stat it heated up really fast, 2 or 3 minutes driving at was at half way. But dropped every time you pulled away, so we changed stat again! Now the car takes a lot longer to warm up, about 10 minutes or so, sometimes longer if very cold. And still drops in temp when pulling away.

Im not to worried my self if im honest as the car runs perfect. But yeah i think i will be using genuine fiat next time! Only thing i need to sort now is the fuel pump as that seems to work fine, but always whines!

The rusting is quite bad. The interior is to be taken out and a lot of old rusted metal is to be grinded off. He said the price usually includes a undercoat, but he's gonna do that in summer when its warm and dry at no cost He was keen to show me his car which was welded 4 years ago and the welds are still good, but i trusted him having used the garage for a while. He told me his welding should outlive the car, and if it doesnt to just give him a call and he'll sort it!

 

[Ziggy122]

oh please please please - soon as you get the car back from him welding it up

Get a spray of underseal from halfords and just protect the fresh stuff before britains roads destroy it

Fresh metal + No underseal = Rots quick

Its a half hour job to just protect where he has been

ziggy

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

What do you mean by a spray, do halfords do it for you ? Or to buy some from halfords ? Thanks for the help hopefully getting her back today or tomorrow!

As for the thermostat, been discussing with my brother . . . he's says we'll do the thermostat when we service it in march/april.
Basically said its up to me where i get the thermostat from but as he runs a car parts shop he can get a QH (i think he said) thermostat for £7.50. Obviously genuine fiat ones will be quite a bit more, but i dont know whether to risk the QH one. My brother seems to think they make pretty good parts, but just wondering if anyones any experience of QH thermostats ?

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

Also, quick question. The garage the car is in gave me a couple of tips to protect the HG from going as im at 75k with no sign of failure (i do get a bit sick of the same question at every garage i go to, 'HG gone yet?' so reassuring). Try not to go over 4k revs, and keep under 2k when cold (which i knew anyway). Service is regularly, do the water pump with the timing belt every 40 - 60k (all stuff i knew)

But he said filing it to the brim with a good quality super unleaded fuel every now and then will do the engine the world of good. Does this really help the engine ?

Thanks

 

[fingers99]

Some folk believe that super unleaded has better cleaning agents than ordinary unleaded. I know of no scientific evidence for it.

 

[Ziggy122]

What do you mean by a spray, do halfords do it for you ? Or to buy some from halfords ? Thanks for the help hopefully getting her back today or tomorrow!

As for the thermostat, been discussing with my brother . . . he's says we'll do the thermostat when we service it in march/april.
Basically said its up to me where i get the thermostat from but as he runs a car parts shop he can get a QH (i think he said) thermostat for £7.50. Obviously genuine fiat ones will be quite a bit more, but i dont know whether to risk the QH one. My brother seems to think they make pretty good parts, but just wondering if anyones any experience of QH thermostats ?

Its a spray you buy from halfords - simple shake and spray thing
A couple of layers on the fresh piece and surround area to help prevent rot getting in

Also, quick question. The garage the car is in gave me a couple of tips to protect the HG from going as im at 75k with no sign of failure (i do get a bit sick of the same question at every garage i go to, 'HG gone yet?' so reassuring). Try not to go over 4k revs, and keep under 2k when cold (which i knew anyway). Service is regularly, do the water pump with the timing belt every 40 - 60k (all stuff i knew)

But he said filing it to the brim with a good quality super unleaded fuel every now and then will do the engine the world of good. Does this really help the engine ?

Thanks

Some folk believe that super unleaded has better cleaning agents than ordinary unleaded. I know of no scientific evidence for it.

I'm gonna give the Super Trick a go
it might not have any more cleaning properties,
But the cleaner bang + less fuel needed to create the correct size bang may help with burning the carbon out

As for the garages advice about revving the tits off it
Its perfectly fine to use the whole rev range once its warm
Doing it from cold like any car will cause rapid heat building when its cold - which COULD stress the head and make it leak

My old punto got to 100k before the HG blew, and i must say i drove it hard quiet abit, it had crumbled up quiet badly as well

If at 75K the belt and pump aint been done, there most likely due soon
IIRC 8v is either 64k or 72k

check the coolant level regulary, if it drops - find out why

Ziggy

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

Yep were keeping an eye on the coolant level as a couple of years ago we found the water rail felt a little loose, hasn't got any worse but im keeping an eye out. Not been any drop at all since we flushed and put fresh in nearly a year ago. Water pump, timing belt an tensioner were all done at 60k thermostat with it too, but that was faulty so again at 65k, but has gone faulty again so needs another at 75k! 3 thermostats in a year, think im going for a record!

Ill get down to halfords for some of that spray then, im guessing its just called something along the lines of underseal?

Is it worth getting the whole car done properly when the weather has brightened up a bit in spring/summer ? We do roughly 15k a year which would take the car to roughly 105k as were aiming to get it through 2 more MOT's before its replaced (probably with a grande, seen as i have a soft spot for fiat)

Thanks for the help

 

[Ziggy122]

Yep were keeping an eye on the coolant level as a couple of years ago we found the water rail felt a little loose, hasn't got any worse but im keeping an eye out. Not been any drop at all since we flushed and put fresh in nearly a year ago. Water pump, timing belt an tensioner were all done at 60k thermostat with it too, but that was faulty so again at 65k, but has gone faulty again so needs another at 75k! 3 thermostats in a year, think im going for a record!

Ill get down to halfords for some of that spray then, im guessing its just called something along the lines of underseal?

Is it worth getting the whole car done properly when the weather has brightened up a bit in spring/summer ? We do roughly 15k a year which would take the car to roughly 105k as were aiming to get it through 2 more MOT's before its replaced (probably with a grande, seen as i have a soft spot for fiat)

Thanks for the help

You struggling to get a decent thermostat too? I've had like 5 in the past 2 years with alsorts of places, they just keep going lazy, making it very hard to get the engine warm

Underseal is the thing - Anything is better then NOTHING, if you've had the floor done once, get underneath and have a look, get it protected as best as you can now

Ziggy

 

[OliActiveSport]

I think it's called
waxoyl or something

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

You struggling to get a decent thermostat too? I've had like 5 in the past 2 years with alsorts of places, they just keep going lazy, making it very hard to get the engine warm

Underseal is the thing - Anything is better then NOTHING, if you've had the floor done once, get underneath and have a look, get it protected as best as you can now

Ziggy

Yep! Orignal worked fine, heated up quick and temp was just below halfway but did it with timing kit as a precaution. New one heated up very quick, but temp rose to just over half way and dropped when you pulled away. Next one (current one) is really struggling to heat up in this weather, 15 - 20 mins before it gets to half way then soon as you pull away, back down to a quarter. My brother says QH thermostats are good, but i might just bite the bullet and get one off fiat.

When i got the quote for the welding he said the floors are usually what goes on punto's, but mine were pretty good and so were the wheel arches. Just the sills that were bad. Failed on 2x front seatbelt points. 1 jacking point, and 2 because the corrision was too near the suspension mounts (all of which were because of the sills)

Thanks for the advice, i will underseal the new stuff my self with the spray, and will get everything done properly once its dried/warmed up a bit to protect the rest

 

[Ziggy122]

QH are normally a good brand
But i've had 3 and i'm having the same results as you

Either they way up way to quickly but fail to maintain
or the struggle to warm up and still cant keep the engine warm

Ziggy

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

Hmm, fiat thermostat it is then. Any idea how much one from fiat is ? One of mine was unbraded, the second motaquip but neither have worked properly. Makes you wonder how many punto's there are out there with the same problem with owners that just dont notice.

 

[Ziggy122]

Hmm, fiat thermostat it is then. Any idea how much one from fiat is ? One of mine was unbraded, the second motaquip but neither have worked properly. Makes you wonder how many punto's there are out there with the same problem with owners that just dont notice.

Alot
Trouble is - its costing me lots in petrol that it shouldnt
As i cant clear the screens as it drops cold, so i let it warm up clear the screens back to been cold
it takes a good long hard drive to get it warm

The other day i was hootaling down the motorway - it was fine temperature wise, soon as i came off, didnt touch the fan speed, and i started to loose heat again!

So for me - Fiat one as well
Shop 4 parts have them - not hugly more then i have paid at some places tho

Ziggy

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

And thats a genuine fiat one ? Not bad really

Mine is exactly the same! I try not to have my fan on more than 1 or the temp just plummets! But this time of year trying to demist with fan speed 1 aint useful!

Or when ive been driving down a 50 road which changed to 70, soon as i put my foot down the temp drops and slowly builds back up again. And yes i had wondered if the fact its running too cold was effecting fuel.

A friend of mine has an astra, temp NEVER raises above cold! Although the heaters blow red hot i keep telling him he needs a new thermostat but he wont coz 'the car runs fine' . . . in his next breath he moans about how much fuel he's going through !!

 

[FiatPuntoMad]

So, an update. Got her back today

The garage said they under estimated the amount of welding to be done. He said he didnt bother checking the floor seen as it wasnt mentioned on the MOT, but now regrets that . . . as the floor was COMPLETELY soft. He said it was hard finding something to weld onto. He pretty much had to manufacture a full new floor for me! This along with the sill weldings he said should of been a LOT more than 200, but was very nice about it and said he cant go back on a quote. Felt guilty only giving him the £315 for all the work. He said its all welded/undersealed but might need a bit of patching up next year, we'll just have to see.

He said the rear shoes and been proper messed up, put on completely wrong and had actually damaged the drum. So that had a lot of work done to it, also fitted new disc's and pads to the front.

Also the headlights were WAY off (which i knew, but forgot to mention) which the previous MOT hadn't picked up. He also welded up a little hole in the exhaust for me, i forgot how quietly punto's purr! All in all, i think he made me a new car

Poor punto, her last owners really didnt take care of her